Thoughts on failed PADI IE's?

[Spinal]

So, a quick and brief summary... I passed! (would like to say I'm an instructor, but I can't... not until all the paperwork is processed!)

The parts I was freaking out more about, I got the higher scores (a 5.0 on the OW parts, and the rescue was "flawless" according to the examiner). Nervousness got the better of me at times (hovering... never struggled so much to stay still, my breathing was all over the place!). Theory and Standards both finished with yonks of time to spare.

I'll add a few "failure points" from my IE

* One chap arrived late, then failed the theory portion (day 1, first part) then left... which seemed odd, as you may as well stay for the rest and see what it's like.
* Another person didn't finish the standards in time, and was told to put random answers at the 1-minute left mark when she freaked out. She passed (barely, but passed). She was really good at the rest of the exam, so I was happy for her (was my DM for my OW bits).
* I struggled with the hover... Was really embarrassing. My advice here is, when borrowing/renting gear (tank and weight belt), at the start of your pool session, take 5 minutes and do a buoyancy check. Don't feel like you need to rush to start the exam (as I did). After the first failed attempt at hovering (as I said, embarrassing)... I was told by the examiner to relax, wait until all the others finished their skills circuits, and I had another try at the buoyancy. In the meantime, I did a quick weight check (over-weighted, never had been in a pool with a 12l tank). Second attempt at a hover went MUCH better. During the dinner that evening, the examiner asked if I did tec - as I was hovering horizontal instead of vertical... (technically, I don't - doing a tec course next week so have been practicing )
* Re the presentations, write/print the various things you need to remember to say/use - then just work through the list. Remember to involve your students (even if they don't speak English )
* For the OW, talk to other candidates before - decide who's going to be who's DM based on their own self-assessment of their weaknesses. You don't want to be teaching a sheet bend knot underwater, having to redo it 4-5 times until your student gets it

All in all, a really challenging two days, but VERY rewarding. I'm glad it's over, but honestly, wouldn't mind doing it again as I found it quite fun. For two days, I didn't think about work in the slightest... and was entirely focused on diving.

I even found my first student (who was reading my OW manual while waiting for me to finish the OW portion of the exam).
M.

[MarkP]

So, a quick and brief summary... I passed! <snip>

Congratulations - I have been on tenterhooks since your last post.

It starts for real now; I felt like I had a sign saying "The buck stops here" on my back as I led my first group of OW students towards the boat for their first ever dive.

Have fun!

[Spinal]

Congratulations - I have been on tenterhooks since your last post.

It starts for real now; I felt like I had a sign saying "The buck stops here" on my back as I led my first group of OW students towards the boat for their first ever dive.

Have fun!

That's the next scary thing. The examiner gave us all a speech at the end... two parts really hit home:
- remember, your name will be on the new diver's cert cards, they will be a walking endorsement of your skills as an instructor. Think how you would feel if you received said diver in a continuing education course.
- once you certify an OW diver, you are both divers (the trailing unspoken end was "would you be happy to dive with them?")

I've spoken to my LDS here, who are interested in some co-teaching, which would be beneficial to both of us (free pair of hands for them, and some more hands on experience for me... though that said, when I did my DM and AI at Wraysbury, I had plenty of hands on experience. I can't thank the guys/gals at Wraysbury enough; they were amazing... so real students don't scare me so much).

M.

[turnerjd]

Congratulations.

The PADI IDC / IE can be tough if you aren't properly prepared, but it sounds like you were well prepared. Now the real work starts.

[greatwhite]

So, a quick and brief summary... I passed! (would like to say I'm an instructor, but I can't... not until all the paperwork is processed!)

The parts I was freaking out more about, I got the higher scores (a 5.0 on the OW parts, and the rescue was "flawless" according to the examiner). Nervousness got the better of me at times (hovering... never struggled so much to stay still, my breathing was all over the place!). Theory and Standards both finished with yonks of time to spare.

I'll add a few "failure points" from my IE

* One chap arrived late, then failed the theory portion (day 1, first part) then left... which seemed odd, as you may as well stay for the rest and see what it's like.
* Another person didn't finish the standards in time, and was told to put random answers at the 1-minute left mark when she freaked out. She passed (barely, but passed). She was really good at the rest of the exam, so I was happy for her (was my DM for my OW bits).
* I struggled with the hover... Was really embarrassing. My advice here is, when borrowing/renting gear (tank and weight belt), at the start of your pool session, take 5 minutes and do a buoyancy check. Don't feel like you need to rush to start the exam (as I did). After the first failed attempt at hovering (as I said, embarrassing)... I was told by the examiner to relax, wait until all the others finished their skills circuits, and I had another try at the buoyancy. In the meantime, I did a quick weight check (over-weighted, never had been in a pool with a 12l tank). Second attempt at a hover went MUCH better. During the dinner that evening, the examiner asked if I did tec - as I was hovering horizontal instead of vertical... (technically, I don't - doing a tec course next week so have been practicing )
* Re the presentations, write/print the various things you need to remember to say/use - then just work through the list. Remember to involve your students (even if they don't speak English )
* For the OW, talk to other candidates before - decide who's going to be who's DM based on their own self-assessment of their weaknesses. You don't want to be teaching a sheet bend knot underwater, having to redo it 4-5 times until your student gets it

All in all, a really challenging two days, but VERY rewarding. I'm glad it's over, but honestly, wouldn't mind doing it again as I found it quite fun. For two days, I didn't think about work in the slightest... and was entirely focused on diving.

I even found my first student (who was reading my OW manual while waiting for me to finish the OW portion of the exam).
M.

Well done!

[MarkP]

I had plenty of hands on experience. I can't thank the guys/gals at Wraysbury enough; they were amazing... so real students don't scare me so much).

M.

I think I did around 120 dives as a divemaster so, like you, I wasn't remotely frightened of students or teaching.

However, the buck will now stop with you and that feels very different, especially in the sea!

That having been said, you'll have a great time and have loads of stories to tell after a few years...

[Tewdric]

Congratulations!

[Tel]

Bit of an aside, but what we've found having generated a large number of PADI Instructors is that if you
want to nail the IE choose a different route, one that may seem crazy, but works - it's go BSAC

A PADI DM crosses over to Dive Leader on joining BSAC, can go on an Instructor Foundation Course and
they become an Assistant Diving Instructor (ADI).

A DL/ADI can teach ALL elements of Ocean and Sport Diver (theory & practical) with on-site (not direct)
supervision. Now in reality that wouldn't happen straight away, but the difference here is that a ADI can
teach skills cold, unlike PADI DM's who may be able to reteach or hone skills that have already been taught
by an Instructor, but whose often first experience of this is on the IDC itself.

Our DM's have been mentored to the point where they are every bit as good as a full Instructor and are
let lose with students with on-site supervision.

Going for the IDC/IE is a fairly big commitment both in time and money, so doing it this way makes for
very competent Instructors in all but name.

PADI themselves identified the difference between being an assistant & being an Instructor plus the high
number of fails in the IE that was linked to the lack of decent prep. This is why many IDC/IE venues
offer prep weeks to get the DM's upto speed beforehand. While this is good it's still just a week and still
pitched at brushing up DM skills then doing the BSAC route of actual real teaching.

You do have to get your brain in what agency? mode, but once nailed it's easy to switch between the two

[Tewdric]

Bit of an aside, but what we've found having generated a large number of PADI Instructors is that if you
want to nail the IE choose a different route, one that may seem crazy, but works - it's go BSAC

A PADI DM crosses over to Dive Leader on joining BSAC, can go on an Instructor Foundation Course and
they become an Assistant Diving Instructor (ADI).

A DL/ADI can teach ALL elements of Ocean and Sport Diver (theory & practical) with on-site (not direct)
supervision. Now in reality that wouldn't happen straight away, but the difference here is that a ADI can
teach skills cold, unlike PADI DM's who may be able to reteach or hone skills that have already been taught
by an Instructor, but whose often first experience of this is on the IDC itself.

Our DM's have been mentored to the point where they are every bit as good as a full Instructor and are
let lose with students with on-site supervision.

Going for the IDC/IE is a fairly big commitment both in time and money, so doing it this way makes for
very competent Instructors in all but name.

PADI themselves identified the difference between being an assistant & being an Instructor plus the high
number of fails in the IE that was linked to the lack of decent prep. This is why many IDC/IE venues
offer prep weeks to get the DM's upto speed beforehand. While this is good it's still just a week and still
pitched at brushing up DM skills then doing the BSAC route of actual real teaching.

You do have to get your brain in what agency? mode, but once nailed it's easy to switch between the two

We would never have expected a suggestion like that from you Tel!

A better answer would be work in a busy dive centre with a resident Course Director so you are living and breathing PADI methods, materials and standards and learning them almost by osmosis.

[Tel]

We would never have expected a suggestion like that from you Tel!

It's a genuine suggestion born by doing the route myself, I am both PADI & BSAC so it's objective

A better answer would be work in a busy dive centre with a resident Course Director so you are living and breathing PADI methods, materials and standards and learning them almost by osmosis.

In an ideal world maybe and being immersed in training helps, but it will always be an assist not taking students
out and teaching solo for real, that's fairly big difference. Overseas true that might be different, working
six/seven days a week plenty of opportunity to get skills nailed, but not in the UK.

Here it's at best a weekend or the odd midweek night, time is tight and often no chance of a skills
circuits or even reteaching if a course has to be nailed that weekend.

Besides PADI IDC centers and PADI themselves have introduced IDC/IE prep weeks, so even they understand
that "work in a busy dive center" route just isn't an option for many.

1. Work for a busy dive center
2. Do a PADI prep week
3. Do BSAC IFC and work as an ADI

It's just another option and agency is irrelevant, if it gets students ready for the IE, who cares anyway.

[Spinal]

I did yet another option actually...

Did the DM, and then instead of an IE, did the AI at Wraysbury. Ended up helping with courses there as an AI pretty much every weekend for a while. That's what I need prepared me most.

I then did the OWSI (second half of the AI) in Italy, with an Italian CD next to where the exam was.



Edit: What does the crossover cost? My total cost was:
DM: £350
DM Crewpack: £120 (I think... can't find the email)
AI: £350
OWSI: 600eur (not the cheapest, but I was being very selective with my CD choice)
AI/OWSI Crewpack: £160
IE: (need to check, I think 600-700eur)

(crewpacks were bought on eBay, from a seller that has a few every month... inclusive of the all important holographic sticker. Yes, they were very cheap by normal standards)

[Tel]

Think one of the bonus things about the BSAC route is that you are doing the job for real taking
students out and teaching them without direct supervision and that's before booking the course.
Sure it will cost about £300 to join a club and do the IFC (we do all that for £230), but that's
before spending £1500 or even more on IDC/IE or AI/IDC/IE route.

Not everybody is cut out to be an Instructor and the romance can evaporate once the job starts
for real and nobody is around to hold a hand, so finding that out before spending a large wedge
isn't that bad a concept

[Robbie Moubert]

You can't beat experience. I spent fours years as a DMT/DM, working with lots of different instructors. I also had 400 dives by the time of my IDC/IE. Some of my fellow candidates had only just managed to reach the required 100 dives and hadn't done much more than the minimum amount of assisting required by the DM course. I did feel very confident when demonstrating and assessing skills because I knew there was nothing that could be thrown at me that I hadn't seen for real.

One story I didn't want to share before Spinal did his IE was about one chap who failed on mine. I did my IDC in Italy with six locals (we had two Course Directors, one Italian and one English) and we were joined by a number of other dive centres for the IE. One of the two PADI examiners (let's call him A) was in a relationship with one of our Course Directors so he couldn't have any involvement with our group and we had to have examiner B. One of our students failed on one of the confined water assessments (can't remember what for unfortunately, it was back in 2004). Examiner A told me afterwards that he would have warned him about it but then given the minimum pass mark. Unfortunately, examiner B was the self-proclaimed "toughest examiner in PADI Europe" and failed him which seemed a bit harsh.

Congratulations to Spinal!

[Neilwood]

Well done hard work paid off