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  1. #241
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Now dare I ask if we are done with Divers Warehouse and to get the topic away from home compressors!!! (Give me strength.)

    Is anyone willing to declare who they think the next big LDS dive shop to go into liquidation will be.
    I feel a TDF list is crying out for filling..
    Are we having a pint bet on it?

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    This is a new low even for you.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    No.
    The new low will come when experienced divers on mass do our own regulator servicing for being fleeced.
    The low will come when we arrange commercial cylinder testing on mass with the commercial boys at the 17 trade rate 10 at a time.
    The new low will come when we co-op hard parts diaphragms and HP seats out of Europe at trade for being told its illegal .
    The new low will come when we co-op ship drop shipment out of China direct ditto Italy, Taiwan, just like all the UK distributors.
    The new low will come when LDS get what they want, numpty divers and try dive training courses. Try dives, try suits, and free coffee.
    and leave nothing for those experienced.

    I don't need a dive shop, they dont need me, but 60% mark ups to have stuff shipped in from UK distributors I can all do without.
    And from the look of things the consequence of the Slatwall flippers and free try dives is beginning to show.
    I care less if you like it or not it won't make a tad difference. More LDS are set to go into liquidation.
    Ask around your in the trade.

    It's unpleasant I grant you but its not low. It's an fair open and honest presentation of a fact.
    More dive shops in the UK are set to liquidate, some are in more dire straights than Divers Warehouse were.
    If you disagree knock yourself out, it wont make any difference to the outcome either.

    I just need the freedom to continue diving without them, or their controls, or limitations or legislations, rules, regulations,
    and best of all their continued interference in experienced divers freedom to dive.

  3. #243
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    No.
    The new low will come when experienced divers on mass do our own regulator servicing for being fleeced.
    The low will come when we arrange commercial cylinder testing on mass with the commercial boys at the 17 trade rate 10 at a time.
    The new low will come when we co-op hard parts diaphragms and HP seats out of Europe at trade for being told its illegal .
    The new low will come when we co-op ship drop shipment out of China direct ditto Italy, Taiwan, just like all the UK distributors.
    The new low will come when LDS get what they want, numpty divers and try dive training courses. Try dives, try suits, and free coffee.
    and leave nothing for those experienced.

    I don't need a dive shop, they dont need me, but 60% mark ups to have stuff shipped in from UK distributors I can all do without.
    And from the look of things the consequence of the Slatwall flippers and free try dives is beginning to show.
    I care less if you like it or not it won't make a tad difference. More LDS are set to go into liquidation.
    Ask around your in the trade.

    It's unpleasant I grant you but its not low. It's an fair open and honest presentation of a fact.
    More dive shops in the UK are set to liquidate, some are in more dire straights than Divers Warehouse were.
    If you disagree knock yourself out, it wont make any difference to the outcome either.

    I just need the freedom to continue diving without them, or their controls, or limitations or legislations, rules, regulations,
    and best of all their continued interference in experienced divers freedom to dive.
    Only 60%
    Happiness cannot be travelled to, owned, earned, worn or consumed. Happiness is the spiritual experience of living every minute with love, grace, and gratitude.

    Denis Waitley

  4. #244
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    I am happy, that you are happy
    And add that Air Liquide, Air Products, BOC and Linde are also happy but dont share your view. LOL
    (Air Liquide made over €16 billion euros last year filling tanks.)
    Yes, all these companies sell gas, they do not fill scuba tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    The biggest money making tool in the dive shop is the compressor.
    The biggest profit per item per investment is the workbench and hand tools
    And the biggest money made from productive staff time spent over time is oxygen cleaning and visual inspection
    I cannot accept this without further clarification. Do you mean the highest profit per square meter is the compressor? Most certainly and without any question the compressor is not by any measure in any LDS the highest earning item. You would need to be filling tanks all day every day at 3 quid a pop to pay the rent. I also do not believe that service generates any real revenue/profit not O2 cleaning. If that were true why does pretty much every dive shop outsource these "highly profitable" tasks?

    I was chatting at the weekend to the shop team (Underwater Explorers) having bought gloves (72) about their web sales (huge). All the time we were there the compressor was silent. Their fills IIRC are 3 quid. They send service to an outside contractor.

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    The fact that the compressor is also the biggest single investment is the problem for most dive shops.
    Lack of capital investment in new, using old, ineffective and expensive to run compressor brands
    and requiring manufacturer service visits and charges the biggest draw from profit.
    But if it is such a "money earner" surely the capital would be easy to justify? A new compressor isn't really very expensive - 10 grand would put a very powerful machine in place. Compared to something like RIB ten grand is peanuts.

    http://gtdivingcompressors.co.uk/pro...hase-electric/
    8,500 for a 9.3cfm

    Something doesn't stack up somewhere.
    Last edited by Chrisch; Today at 02:51 PM.

  5. #245
    Trailer Trash The Real Paulus's Avatar
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    I actually Googled my 2 remaining LDS's (such as they are) to see if they still exist. One of them I last used in 2001 for my Open Water ticket, the other I've only used once and that was for servicing.
    Looks like they still exist but seem to be little more than meeting places for what are now Facebook based diving groups. Both shops have living accom above. Probably why they still exist.

    Not high enough profile to make it to Iain's list.

  6. #246
    M.D., Beaver Sports (Yorks) Ltd
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    Well, all I can say is that in my 36 years in the diving industry, I now realise I clearly must have it all wrong in regard to where retailers are making their margins...

    It has always been perceived in the trade that a compressor was an essential overhead and definite loss leader, in literally an handful of diver popular locations, that is not the case and the compressor together with large bank may well be a good earner.

    This 'magic figure' of 60% seems to get mentioned frequently, yes there are a few products where that type of margin is the norm, 60% on a pack of O-Rings after VAT will give a shop around 1.40 for possibly 15 minutes work trying to find out what size the customer actually needs. However that does not transfer across the board and high value items may well make less than 10% profit. Cylinders have always been the worst earner for all involved and quite possibly masks and snorkels have generally been amongst the best.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Yes, all these companies sell gas, they do not fill scuba tanks.
    Something doesn't stack up somewhere.
    Happy to explain further, but for brevity your statement is not strictly correct. One of the companies I listed above was Air Liquide.
    Now at one time they owed:

    Apeks Marine UK.
    Aqualung USA.
    US Divers USA.
    La Spirotechnique France.
    Nihon Aqualung Japan.
    Technisub Italy.

    Add to this that most of the above companies listed also subsequently owed a number of other smaller diving companies
    that I am not listing at this juncture. But the overall group was known as the Aqualung Group and owed by Air Liquide.

    Although strictly speaking Air Liquide is a gas company filling tanks as you say and not necessarily scuba tanks but indirectly
    they were in the diving business to a greater degree than perhaps most would at first give credit.
    They sold the Aqualung Group two years ago to Montagu Private Equity group.

    I was the marketing manager for one of those above listed companies, twice in fact so could give a much greater outline of detail.
    But for the purposes of an open forum discussion and on these specific topics suffice to say the interest in filling scuba tanks
    and dive shop liquidation is more of an interest than most would at first think.
    Whether or not we agree is somewhat inconsequential what stacks up is the inevitable consequence however unseen.

  8. #248
    Established TDF Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1963 View Post
    Well, all I can say is that in my 36 years in the diving industry, I now realise I clearly must have it all wrong in regard to where retailers are making their margins...

    It has always been perceived in the trade that a compressor was an essential overhead and definite loss leader, in literally an handful of diver popular locations, that is not the case and the compressor together with large bank may well be a good earner.

    This 'magic figure' of 60% seems to get mentioned frequently, yes there are a few products where that type of margin is the norm, 60% on a pack of O-Rings after VAT will give a shop around 1.40 for possibly 15 minutes work trying to find out what size the customer actually needs. However that does not transfer across the board and high value items may well make less than 10% profit. Cylinders have always been the worst earner for all involved and quite possibly masks and snorkels have generally been amongst the best.
    36 years ago!! Wow you must be like over 50 by now.

    It's also interesting that compressors on the coast are not as profitable as those inland, Go figure.
    Same for general retail dive shops also I guess.

    As for 0-rings these are my favorate parts. So if your self servicing your own kit you need to know the following:
    The polymer, the compound, the shore hardness and the cure date. Pretty much everything the dive shops cant tell you.
    But better yet from the suppliers they are between 2 pence and 4 pence each who in turn sells to the distributor, to the dive importer wholesaler to the LDS and then to me?.
    And some wonder why experienced divers also take care choosing the lubricant used on own kit also.
    Against the alternative of listening to the dive shop owner tell you why he cant sell you parts because its illegal.

    Now as for your claim of profit in the trade being less than 10% do you really want to discuss this further in an open forum?
    One of us is wrong.........Your call.
    Last edited by iain/hsm; Today at 09:16 PM.


 
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