Hello and welcome to our community! Is this your first visit?
Register
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 37 of 37
  1. #31
    All hail ZOM Woz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    5,149
    Likes (Given)
    114
    Likes (Received)
    2337
    I suppose it really depends whether you are running a business, or a lifestyle choice.

    If you're running a dive business, then if you're selling the same as everyone else I'm afraid it's the same problem as any other retail business. Motorbike shops have pretty much all gone to the wall leaving a few big players as people go in, spend an hour trying on the kit, then bugger off and buy it off eBay or from one of the big box shifters. Anyone sells Apeks/Scubapro etc so it's just a matter of ringing round and playing "but they are doing it cheaper" game. It's a bloody hard market to be in as there will always be someone who will do it for next to nothing. I remember when you could call round the shops and get a brand new 12L Faber for under 90.

    The other option is to specialise and say "bollocks" to the box shifters. Kent Tooling does this- they make a superb product but you will only see them in a few dedicated shops who stock quality stuff as they have quite rightly decided to protect their margins and reputation. Then again they have another string to their business so aren't completely dependent on the reels etc. Ditto O3- you don't see many retailers for their suits.

    What a diver wants (a shop like UE) and what makes the margin (a box shifting shop) are 2 different business models. UE have dug out an enviable reputation for stocking the top end stuff and divers are prepared to pay a premium for this. The box shifters are all competing for the same leisure pound and the only thing they can really fight on is margin.

    Before the Internet, the October dive show was where the shops would get rid of their end of season stuff at bargain prices. It's not been like that for years now. I was after a pair of Quattros and they were cheapest at Decathlon!

    I have an online credit check service and if you punt in the details of the companies in the industry, the only people making and real money are the big manufacturers and importers.
    Last edited by Woz; 02-12-2015 at 09:41 AM.
    Views expressed here are my own and are not representative of any organisation. If you would like an official reply, I suggest you ask the question on a website the organisation is responsible for, or contact them directly using the phone.
    https://www.facebook.com/BSACChairmanWoz/

  2. #32
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Broadway Cotswolds
    Posts
    1,459
    Likes (Given)
    148
    Likes (Received)
    678
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    Does this matter? The key thing is are they any good. O Three are Chinese but they seem to do OK.

    We sell stuff that has a good reputation as the company is German (Knott-Avonride) but they get stuff made under sub-contract in China. It's almost impossible nowadays to find any major EU company that doesn't source in this way. The absolute cornerstone of the viability is quality control. On the leisure side we know one or two companies that buy in Chinese shit and shit it is. But we have another supplier that sources in China but has a QC manager out there full time to visit the factories. That range is OK. To be fair some of the EU made stuff is shit too.

    I look at stuff and wonder how it can be made so cheap. Then you have the Internet halfwits selling on a thin margin and the end user grumbling about the price of stuff as it it was actually expensive. Crazy crazy world.


    Sure it matters.
    From the OP's small independent LDS retailer perspective its critical.

    Nothing to do with quality, or of China. Its market share margins and profitability.

    Read between the lines. Im being helpful.

    The OP stocks up with some brand of regulator thinking its Polish All Tech and he has the exclusive deal of all deals.

    Then up pops these local dive shops near to him with the same product as a OEM school club deal direct from Taiwan selling to the retail public at less than your cost price?

    Added to which the stuff went from Taiwan to Poland to a UK distributor before getting to him, Each taking a realistic and respectful profit along the way.

    And we haven't get established if the OP is going to be selling spares for the regulator yet, HP seat, HP filter, LP diaphragm, LP seat and 0-rings.

    So how exactly is it going to work for him? Quality is OK, so what , brand relatively unknown, so what. Brand playing on the "Tech" black image again so what.

    But next thing you know along comes a DEMA dump of 100's of the same stuff.
    Selling at less than your original buy price. Now what does he do?

    Quality? LOL Does this now matter?
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 02-12-2015 at 09:45 AM.

  3. #33
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    8,287
    Likes (Given)
    805
    Likes (Received)
    3664
    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    ....
    Nothing to do with quality, or of China. Its market share margins and profitability. ....
    I agree. I'm not quite sure why you brought China up?

    Anyway as we all agree LDS are doomed.

  4. #34
    Established TDF Member Iain Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    2,543
    Likes (Given)
    1324
    Likes (Received)
    1675
    Purely on the slatwall question, I wish I'd taken a photo at Extreme Exposure in Florida last week. If there wasn't a window or a door or a drysuit rail, there was slatwall...all of it loaded with premium dive products. (I suspect UE copied EE's business model, helped by Halcyon's pricing policy). Added to which is free coffee, open 0800-1900, knowledgeable staff and a "what else can we do to make your day a better one?" attitude.

    Then again, we also visited Light Monkey. Shelves of boxes of components, part made, and complete products. Around the edges of the room were lathes, soldering stations, test bays, etc.

    Not the "sell diving to the public" storefront of EE, but a kit-fettler's wet-dream!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #35
    Mark Milburn Okeanos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Mabe, Penryn, Cornwall
    Posts
    79
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    35
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    I see from your supplier list where you are in this, you cant get the main brands so a mis mash of relatively unknown players mixed with overpriced fins and a drysuit made in China. Cant see how any of this is going to work.

    For starters take this Tecline range of regs, These are pure Taiwan.
    Force Fins, I wouldn't use anything else. I have challenged no end of people to a distance/time vs air consumption test, all have refused.

    Tecline are AUP.

    My current ND drysuit has lasted longer than any other make I have tried, I have tried a few as well. There is much more made in China than you think, anyone got anything Apple? It's all Chinese, I see what you mean Iain
    Declared interest:
    SDI/TDI Diver Training, Stingray RHIB and/or Moonshadow Hard Boat Charter in Cornwall visit - Atlantic Scuba.

  6. #36
    Established TDF Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Broadway Cotswolds
    Posts
    1,459
    Likes (Given)
    148
    Likes (Received)
    678
    Quote Originally Posted by Okeanos View Post

    Force Fins, I wouldn't use anything else. I have challenged no end of people to a distance/time vs air consumption test, all have refused.

    Great I'm sure Bob Evens is grateful for your contribution and support


    Quote Originally Posted by Okeanos View Post

    Tecline are AUP.


    Great I'm sure Bob Hollis is grateful for your contribution and support



    Quote Originally Posted by Okeanos View Post

    My current ND drysuit has lasted longer than any other make I have tried, I have tried a few as well. There is much more made in China than you think, anyone got anything Apple? It's all Chinese, I see what you mean Iain
    Great I'm sure they are grateful too but none of this flag n badge waving is doing you and your independent LDS any good.

    Now I haven't made comment on China but seeing as some have already let me suggest you take a flight over and take a look for yourself

    I can give you many addresses and the contact details and just see for yourself before you make any similarity to Apple or any other quality company using China.

    This is retail sports diving gear made in some back alley with pallets for flooring.

    Not to be compared with Foxconn China or Apple your no way close.

    Look as a small independent retail store you need support and workable margins for stacking the stuff
    Your getting neither your just treated as a cash cow for made for profit stuff.

    How much you selling Force fins for by way of example?
    Last edited by iain/hsm; 02-12-2015 at 04:56 PM.

  7. #37
    Mark Milburn Okeanos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Mabe, Penryn, Cornwall
    Posts
    79
    Likes (Given)
    37
    Likes (Received)
    35
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Great I'm sure Bob Evens is grateful for your contribution and support, Great I'm sure Bob Hollis is grateful for your contribution and support
    They may well be grateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Great I'm sure they are grateful too but none of this flag n badge waving is doing you and your independent LDS any good.
    It may not do, but my original question still is, what are my options?

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Now I haven't made comment on China but seeing as some have already let me suggest you take a flight over and take a look for yourself
    I can give you many addresses and the contact details and just see for yourself before you make any similarity to Apple or any other quality company using China.
    This is retail sports diving gear made in some back alley with pallets for flooring. Not to be compared with Foxconn China or Apple your no way close.
    Are you saying that every Chinese company that makes dive gear, is a 2 bit workhouse making gear that will fail as soon as you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by iain/hsm View Post
    Look as a small independent retail store you need support and workable margins for stacking the stuff. Your getting neither your just treated as a cash cow for made for profit stuff. How much you selling Force fins for by way of example?
    I don't get support from any of the main recognised brands, so I am stuck with ones people don't know so well. The ones I have are supportive and friendly, even Bob Evans has admired I keep Force Fins in stock.

    I don't just sell Force Fins, I also have Northern Diver Coda fins (Natures wings) and Sopras Sub (made in China, possibly in one of premises you mention). Half of my stock is Sopras Sub, they use the same Chinese manufacturers as many other makes, as well as other sources around the world. I used to sell the Sopras Sub dive computer, which was actually a Seiko, identical to an Apeks (Seiko) one. I don't buy from China, but, I do buy from companies that do, which in reality is most of them.

    I am interested to find out exactly which products you are referring to, when you refer to cheap Chinese products made in a back alley. If I knew I could avoid them and try to find a reasonable alternative. If it is a snorkel or weight belt retainer, it's not exactly life threatening. So what are these products?
    Declared interest:
    SDI/TDI Diver Training, Stingray RHIB and/or Moonshadow Hard Boat Charter in Cornwall visit - Atlantic Scuba.


 
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •