Wtb: Dpv

[Rob Dobson]

The real world field testing done in Tahoe on the Suex range shows that the claimed performance figures don't come close to actual. I know nothing about the Aquaprop.

[Rob Dobson]

If my budget was around £1200 I'd be looking for a used good one over this sort of thing. Feck, Gavin's are changing hands for a few hundred quid these days, or one of the old SS range, old Echo / Frisco models from DX. I've seen Sierras go for less than grand. I'd be patient and get something good rather than spend a lot of money on something that's not so good.

[EngelenD]

I would ask Rob Dobson to make me An offer
Bought my sierra from him, great service, still running flawless


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[johnkendall]

The real world field testing done in Tahoe on the Suex range shows that the claimed performance figures don't come close to actual. I know nothing about the Aquaprop.

Rob,

You've said this before, but you were wrong then and you still are. The results for the 2 Halcyon units (the only Suex built units tested by Tahoe) are about right for their advertised specs.

None of the current range of Suex units have been to Tahoe because there are a number of things about the testing that Suex don't agree with.

[Rob Dobson]

Before Tahoe I remember claimed figures putting those scooters at 70mpm! I see that the few places still offering them (Halcyon don't seem to), have more realistic figures these days.

If it's ever run again I think that it'd be to the benefit of the entire DPV scene if Suex participated. The tests cannot be frigged or cheated and the data is completely transparent with all data being shared with participants.

[OutOfTest]

Any links to this Tahoe thing for the uninformed?


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[nickb]

http://www.tahoebenchmark.com

[OutOfTest]

Cheers mate. Much appreciated.


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[OutOfTest]

Hmm...interesting. Apart from shipping costs I fail to see why any manufacturer wouldn't send a scooter to that!

A bench mark is a bench mark whether you agree with the rest procedures or not.


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[SoggyBottoms]

you can only wonder why they don't send units.
it just leads to speculation about the manufacturer's claims.
a real foot and gun clash


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[OutOfTest]

Manufacturers claims for range and speed will always be just that, difference in how divers are loaded etc.

That's why a bench mark is so useful.


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[johnkendall]

Hmm...interesting. Apart from shipping costs I fail to see why any manufacturer wouldn't send a scooter to that!

A bench mark is a bench mark whether you agree with the rest procedures or not.


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When the "benchmark" is well supported by one or two manufacturers who happen to be based very near the test area, and when most of the "test divers" own and use DPVs from those manufacturers it isn't a particularly unbiased test. Why would a European manufacturer spend a lot of money sending units over there?
Suex do in house testing of their own and other units. The results of the tests of their equipment are available.

Interestingly someone who was involved in the testing recently posted on "The Deco Stop" forum and said that they've found that the data loggers that were used aren't even internally consistant, and have a 5-10% error in the internal timing.
A proper unbiased and technical benchmark would be awesome, but it's almost impossible to do manned testing without bias.

[OutOfTest]

When the "benchmark" is well supported by one or two manufacturers who happen to be based very near the test area, and when most of the "test divers" own and use DPVs from those manufacturers it isn't a particularly unbiased test. Why would a European manufacturer spend a lot of money sending units over there?
Suex do in house testing of their own and other units. The results of the tests of their equipment are available.

Interestingly someone who was involved in the testing recently posted on "The Deco Stop" forum and said that they've found that the data loggers that were used aren't even internally consistant, and have a 5-10% error in the internal timing.
A proper unbiased and technical benchmark would be awesome, but it's almost impossible to do manned testing without bias.

Cheers John. That makes things a little clearer.


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[Rob Dobson]

When the "benchmark" is well supported by one or two manufacturers who happen to be based very near the test area, and when most of the "test divers" own and use DPVs from those manufacturers it isn't a particularly unbiased test. Why would a European manufacturer spend a lot of money sending units over there?
Suex do in house testing of their own and other units. The results of the tests of their equipment are available.

Interestingly someone who was involved in the testing recently posted on "The Deco Stop" forum and said that they've found that the data loggers that were used aren't even internally consistant, and have a 5-10% error in the internal timing.
A proper unbiased and technical benchmark would be awesome, but it's almost impossible to do manned testing without bias.

I was unaware of any suspected inaccuracies, but even assuming that this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), the fact that the figures are based upon multiple runs by multiple divers, who use all the scooters and then averaged out makes this about as fair and as accurate as possible. Any inaccuracies in the kit are completely unintentional and would effect everyone equally - the raw test data is given to all participants so any such errors can be spotted and challenged.

I don't know which manufacturers are near Tahoe. I suspect none of them, but I know that DX are based in Washington and I think that SS are based in Florida. DSS are in California from I remember. None of that lot are local to lake Tahoe if my geography serves me right.

The last Tahoe benchmark was actually pretty disastrous for DX who had just spent big $$$$ in developing their new shroud and propellor by engaging with MIT and Yale and doing loads of high end computer modelling. The new propellor system made the scooters worse in testing because they'd failed to take account of the stresses placed on the prop surface area under load. The performances sucked and yet the figures were left to stand as DX have a philosophy of 'let the cards fall were they may'. It would have been better for them not to participate, but by getting the test data they were able to correctly identify and fix the issues. Don't 'fix' the data, fix the problem. Let's make stuff better.

As for the cost of shipping stuff over there I can remember there being an offer made for the test committee to fund bringing the Suex over for the testing and then returning it, but there was no interest. Maybe now that there is a US office it'll be embraced next time. Let's hope so (if there ever is another one).

[Garspeed]

I would ask Rob Dobson to make me An offer
Bought my sierra from him, great service, still running flawless


That's the plan but he needs to find something suitable for me first!