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  1. #4561
    I still don't have a member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    My experience of Swedes is limited to the ones in Ski resorts; Your taxi driver likely has a point.
    The swedes drinking habits make the british look like amateurs.
    Was staying in Tromso a few years ago in a hotel overlooking a marina. While we were there it was some sort of public holiday so the Norwegians were boozing. 1 man staggered off a boat moored in the marina and fortunately passed out on the pontoon without falling into the sea. The rescue services rocked up complete with a guy zipped into a bright orange neoprene drysuit it would appear water rescues are common there.............
    A fully paid up member of the CRAFT Club

    I failed to dive in Antartica
    I used to have a handle on life but it broke

  2. #4562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    So, a bridge nearly twice as long as Oresund, with significantly deeper water (Beaufort's Dyke is 300m compared to the 40m of Oresund), so much more challenging underwater conditions is only going to cost around 3 times as much? (Oresund cost 4billion euros at 2000 prices - around 6bn now allowing for inflation)

    We can look forward to the 20bn expanding somewhat then.

    Edit: Having just read the wikipedia page about Beaufort's Dyke - bloody hell! it's been used for the dumping of nuclear waste and chemical weapons (and possibly for other things they no longer have records of) Good luck with sinking bridge supports onto that!
    So negative. If Boris says it will be done, it will be. Just like the Garden Bridge, London Airport...

  3. #4563
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neilwood View Post
    So negative. If Boris says it will be done, it will be. Just like the Garden Bridge, London Airport...
    #GetBridgeDone ?

  4. #4564
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    You are missing an "N" from that hashtag.

  5. #4565
    I used to be Cheeky UnCheeky Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisch View Post
    They are not the same thing no. There is a VAT exemption but I understand it is not just adapted vehicles (which seems reasonable). I have a customer that makes trailers for mobility scooters and they are VAT exempt. Motability is a scheme where you get a cheap lease vehicle. Again if it were modified I doubt anyone would have any grumble but it appears to be a pisstake for a lot of people. It's a good money earner for the big car dealerships.
    Class 2 (not on road) mobility scooters appear to fall under this:
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-reli...e-a-disability

    The VAT exemption on cars appear to fall under VAT Notice 1002 and so far as I can see definitely does only apply to adapted vehicles for people who normally use a wheelchair

  6. #4566
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    So, a bridge nearly twice as long as Oresund, with significantly deeper water (Beaufort's Dyke is 300m compared to the 40m of Oresund), so much more challenging underwater conditions is only going to cost around 3 times as much? (Oresund cost 4billion euros at 2000 prices - around 6bn now allowing for inflation)

    We can look forward to the 20bn expanding somewhat then.

    Edit: Having just read the wikipedia page about Beaufort's Dyke - bloody hell! it's been used for the dumping of nuclear waste and chemical weapons (and possibly for other things they no longer have records of) Good luck with sinking bridge supports onto that!
    Would a tunnel not be more effective?
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  7. #4567
    Established TDF Member Chrisch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnCheeky Monkey View Post
    Class 2 (not on road) mobility scooters appear to fall under this:
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-reli...e-a-disability

    The VAT exemption on cars appear to fall under VAT Notice 1002 and so far as I can see definitely does only apply to adapted vehicles for people who normally use a wheelchair
    Thanks. Reading that the ambiguity is "parts and accessories". It appears also the "supplier" can determine the eligibility to some extent. this explains the feedback I get and the overwhelming sense of entitlement from some of the end customers. It certainly is a source of annoyance amongst my customer base who are "suppliers".

  8. #4568
    Established TDF Member Nickpicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    Would a tunnel not be more effective?
    Tunnels aren't as sexy.
    Bridges can glitter.
    Bridges can span the miles majestically.

    And as every life situation can be referenced to the hitchhikers guide:
    "It was going to revitalize the economy of the Squornshellous System. They spent the entire economy of the Squornshellous System building it."
    The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

  9. #4569
    Established TDF Member jamesp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    Tunnels aren't as sexy.
    Bridges can glitter.
    Bridges can span the miles majestically.

    And as every life situation can be referenced to the hitchhikers guide:
    "It was going to revitalize the economy of the Squornshellous System. They spent the entire economy of the Squornshellous System building it."
    Cross rail is now over 18Bn, HS2 predicted at ~100Bn, The Garden bridge cost 53m and never came off of the paper/fantasy format.

    Bridge to troubles over water(apologies to S&G) for 20Bn? safe to stick a nought on that and a couple of multipliers.

  10. #4570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickpicks View Post
    Tunnels aren't as sexy.
    Bridges can glitter.
    Bridges can span the miles majestically.

    And as every life situation can be referenced to the hitchhikers guide:
    "It was going to revitalize the economy of the Squornshellous System. They spent the entire economy of the Squornshellous System building it."
    He, like so many politicians before him, wants to leave a "legacy" project that people will talk about for years to come - done right bridges can be great architectural features where as bridges will only ever be holes in the ground. No one ever says "Look how nice the channel tunnel looks" but the do make those comments with bridges (particularly when lit properly).


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesp View Post
    Cross rail is now over 18Bn, HS2 predicted at ~100Bn, The Garden bridge cost 53m and never came off of the paper/fantasy format.

    Bridge to troubles over water(apologies to S&G) for 20Bn? safe to stick a nought on that and a couple of multipliers.
    One of the main problems with infrastructure projects such as these is that insufficient thought is given to the initial figure before they are made public. Looking at a few of those:
    Crossrail - huge challenges of tunnelling under very tightly controlled ground with a lot of high prestige buildings and other underground tunnels and features.
    HS2 - until the full routes are 100% decided, it is hard to put figures on specific engineering issues such as bridges/tunnels, ground conditions, compulsory purchase orders (there are huge amounts of private property that need to be bought up to allow the route to progress), planning delays etc.

    I would agree that his figure of 20Bn seems woefully inadequate. Looking close to home, the Queensferry Crossing was 1.7 miles and cost 1.3Bn (including roadworks on each side). That was without any of the particular issues that the Boris Bridge would come with such as Beaufort's Dyke munition issues, depth of water (the QC was only 40-50m to bedrock) etc.


 

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