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  1. #31
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  2. #32
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Record the conversation. I would say don't disclose this at this point. (Do not doubt for one minute it will aggravate the situation). Then at your leisure you can transcribe the conversation accurately. Get someone sensible to help you with the transcription, your view of something said and the way things are said can be biased when your the one "In It" (Thats not a dig, its just human nature )

    If your going into a meeting it is your right (In Law) to have an independent person to be with you, this could be a Union rep, another worker at the firm, Again this can Aggravate the situation, as NDY as said, HR are paid by your employer to protect them, if you think they are there to protect you you are deluded....... But it is your right and I would strongly advise you take someone if this is followed up with more meetings.

    Don't go in there with (I know my rights!!!) that will really put their backs up, see what is said at this first meeting, ask them about their view of you work and your training level, get as much info out of them as possible, press them if they are evasive.


    BTW, I'm an ex senior union rep.
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  3. #33
    Established TDF Member Decosnapper's Avatar
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    Even that fails to quote the statute or case law that says 'no' or 'yes'. The author is offering HR services...that makes me nervous...The article does refer to covert recordings being permitted at tribunal.

    Still not convinced. Go anything else?

  4. #34
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decosnapper View Post
    Even that fails to quote the statute or case law that says 'no' or 'yes'. The author is offering HR services...that makes me nervous...The article does refer to covert recordings being permitted at tribunal.

    Still not convinced. Go anything else?
    Its my understanding (I am afraid I cant quote anything right now) but you cannot record without both parties agreeing to it in this situation, however you are corrrect you can record what you like for personnel use, its the making public that is the sticking point.....

    What you can do is ask HR to record the conversation, they are legally obliged to make a copy for you as well.
    However this can cause more grief at this early stage...... Again its just human nature I'm afraid.
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  5. #35
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    From my reading of various sources of the UK situation, you can record with the consent of 1 of the parties (at present, but that is changing to all parties soon throughout the EU) but you can use the data for personal use only and cannot share it with anyone else or even go to your friend and say "listen to this what do you think?".

    Anyway it is far easier to just ask your boss if a neutral person can attend as you are stressed over the whole thing and are worried that you may misinterpret what he says.

    Me personally, if I am bringing one of my staff in to deal with problems or discipline or basically anything other than their annual performance review I have a witness present and I inform the staff member that I will be writing up a notation of the meeting afterwards which they can have a copy of if they wish. That way there is no one comes along afterwards and says I said something that wasnt said.

    I would not go down the secret recording route. If you wish to record you should get their permission first and then the first line on the tape should be hou both acknowledging that you know the conversation is recorded and are happy for it to be so.
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  6. #36
    Cheeky Monkey... Paul Evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulo View Post
    From my reading of various sources of the UK situation, you can record with the consent of 1 of the parties (at present, but that is changing to all parties soon throughout the EU) but you can use the data for personal use only and cannot share it with anyone else or even go to your friend and say "listen to this what do you think?".

    Anyway it is far easier to just ask your boss if a neutral person can attend as you are stressed over the whole thing and are worried that you may misinterpret what he says.

    Me personally, if I am bringing one of my staff in to deal with problems or discipline or basically anything other than their annual performance review I have a witness present and I inform the staff member that I will be writing up a notation of the meeting afterwards which they can have a copy of if they wish. That way there is no one comes along afterwards and says I said something that wasnt said.

    I would not go down the secret recording route. If you wish to record you should get their permission first and then the first line on the tape should be hou both acknowledging that you know the conversation is recorded and are happy for it to be so.
    Why don't you record and make a tape available to the employee? They would be nuts not to accept. Also Its the employee's right to have who THEY WANT, not a HR Clone. (I've seen HR Notes, some word's missing, context completely missing, Context twisted.... Oh I could go on!!)

    The defence rest's m'lord...........
    “Attitude is a choice. Happiness is a choice. Optimism is a choice. Kindness is a choice. Giving is a choice. Respect is a choice. Whatever choice you make makes you. Choose wisely.”
    Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

  7. #37
    Established TDF Member Paulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Evans View Post
    the employee's right to have who THEY WANT,
    Not in my industry and we have exemptions from alot of the employment legistlations we do though try to follow best practice. Mutual agreement is got on the 3rd party but I dont think I have ever objected to who they wanted to bring in. We have legistlation that allows someone bring in whoever they want as long as it is an employee if there is disciplinary proceedings going on and what the independant person can do which is limited to notetaking and sidebar advice to the employee

    As for voice recordings ... not on my watch
    Last edited by Paulo; 04-07-2014 at 07:05 AM.
    Remember anything you read on the internet was probably written by some guy sitting at home in his underpants! Including this !!

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  8. #38
    Nav jāuztraucas par manu zirgu Baron015's Avatar
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    Just go ahead and record it.

    At least then you have the facts on hand.

    You can disclose it later if you want to use the recordings at a hearing of the ombudsman or in a court case.


    ---
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.


    Memento mori.

  9. #39
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    My solicitors take on recording meetings in the UK.

    You can make a covert recording of any meeting you attend as an 'aide memoir' - you were there, you were a party to all that was said.

    You cannot share that recording with anyone without the consent of the other party/s. Without their permission it is inadmissible in a court / tribunal.

    You can make notes / transcribe the recording and share that.

  10. #40
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    I have managed a few people as an ineffective layer of middle management over the last few years.

    If I sat down to have an informal chat with someone and they asked me to record it, I'd be fairly pissed off and immediately go into damage limitation control mode. I would avoid saying much, do an awful lot of "thanks for raising this, I will consider it and get back to you" and probably invite HR to the meeting. Largely because an informal chat should be exactly that, and allow me to be fairly frank and open. By introducing any kind of recording, or by turning up with a union rep or other colleague, you instantly remove my ability to be frank and open in case it backfires on me.

    So have the chat with your boss. Summarise afterwards in an e-mail if required, or if something comes up that you are significantly unhappy about. But see if they will just be straight with you on what is going on. It might be that they don't feel you are in the same place that you think you are, and by having a chat about things you might well change their opinion of you. Turning up guns blazing is a recipe for getting nothing more than the party line, which will be "Course is booked for X date, you are not in the office, I can't put you on the course unless you cancel leave. We have to fit these things around everyone else too, and this date was the best time for most people unfortunately." and nothing more.

    If you are that pissed off about it, I'd just get another job. With a job offer in hand you can discuss this with current employer, and you might just find that things improve significantly. Or they might thank you and shake your hand, leaving you to go and work for the new people and probably get more money and better opportunities.

    Digs.


 
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