Could copyright be killing creativity?

[Mikael]

Mikael, there isn't much creativity in events photography if we are talking about taking photos of people dressed up in their glad rags. I have done some of this and unless you are doing regular gigs, you don't make much money, normal price is £10 for a 8x6 or 10x8 which costs around .30-.50 to print using a sub-printer and the mount is .50-1.00 each. Events don't normally employ photographers now, it is the clients buying on the night. re: copyright, I have had people take photos on their iPhones in front of the backdrop while I was taking mine and funny old thing, they don't buy photos... Too much hassle for too little return as far as I am concerned. Plus people can be so rude... Can't deal with that!

Regards

Every job has its ups and downs, only Simon can judge whether his chance to make a living by being creative is too marred by the aggravation of copyright infringement for him to continue down that particular line. How the world should be or how we would wish it to be is often not how it is. Either persevere by campaigning for the change you want to see or accept it for what is and make pragmatic decision based on that. Sadly it appears that on the issue of copyright, popular opinion and awareness is heading a different direction to the one some posters here would like to see. I sit on the fence on the IP issue, I can see the arguments for both sides.

You only have to look at legal rangles between Apple and Samsung to see the pitfalls. Between these giants it is not about what is just it is about who has the most powerful lawyers. The idea that a single commercial entity could attempt patent something like touch screen technology, so they can be sole benefactor is a step back as far as I am concerned.

[Mikael]

Relax about YouTube and music - at least here in the uk. Afaik the PRS have struck a licensing deal whereby YouTube pay a share of as revenue and uk users can upload music.

So it's licensed.

Anything similar for vimeo?

[Steve Clark]

Relax about YouTube and music - at least here in the uk. Afaik the PRS have struck a licensing deal whereby YouTube pay a share of as revenue and uk users can upload music.

So it's licensed.

I think it's just some music, not all of it. Are all artists linked to PRS?

I've got some videos on youtube. For the ones with tracks by the Prodigy, I just got a notification that they would be using them for displaying adverts and the music could stay. I uploaded one with the soundtrack from Topgun on it and that just got muted.

Steve

[Stuart Keasley]

I think it's just some music, not all of it. Are all artists linked to PRS?

I've got some videos on youtube. For the ones with tracks by the Prodigy, I just got a notification that they would be using them for displaying adverts and the music could stay. I uploaded one with the soundtrack from Topgun on it and that just got muted.

Steve

Yes, it does depend on the track, and also the use. Commercial use will pretty much always require a specific license. Personal use will depend on what the artist has decided they want done.

https://support.google.com/youtube/a...d_what_is&rd=1

I think there's a music search facility somewhere that gives you a clue, can't remember where though...

[Decosnapper]

Probably. Topgun soundtrack rights might be owned by an organisation that's not part of PRS.

[BTS]

Topgun soundtrack

Isn't that just Gary cursing for having misplaced the shot again or shouting at divers to f***ing jump?

[Mikael]

http://www.prsformusic.com/Pages/default.aspx

Give them a call, they will let you know:

- If the music requires license
- If the music is already licensed for your intended use (e.g non-commercial through YouTube/Vimeo)
- If they're authorised to provide a license on behalf of the artist
- If not, how owns the license, who needs to be contacted

To follow up on this thread. Thanks Stuart for providing the link to prs. Obviously one of the reasons that I put this thread up in the first place was that I have project of my own in mind. I have my own video footage, that I have worked on, cropped, mixed, transitioned and timed correctly to soundtrack (that is not mine) that I wish to use.

Today, I phoned PRS to ask about licencing of that particular piece of music. After a bit of back and forth to get the right department, I started to make some progress. They were very helpful and polite but unfortunately were not authorised to licence the music.

I now have the name of the two publishers as well as their phone numbers. In addition to this I have the phone number for PPL who PRS say should be able to inform me who holds the original recording rights. Given that I wish to use the original and as opposed to a cover I require permission from both publishers and the who ever holds the original recording rights.

I think I will try to tomorrow to call these people to see where I can get, partly out of curiosity. Assuming that all three parties are amenable to providing copyright permission and there is some sort of non-commercial licence available this seems like it could be quite a lengthy process. I am not even sure what form or shape these permission would take. Could they be emailed, or will I have to sign or counter sign documents to be sent by post, from all three parties?

If there are any kinks in this process such as copyright being with held, the licencing process being to cumbersome or a licence fee being prohibitively* expensive then the end result is I don't have the right to use the music. At this stage my options would be to either;

1. Break the law and use it anyway (as so many people do).
2. Not publish the project at all or start from new and seek some other music.

Option one does not appeal, I don't wish to break the law. Option two on the other hand seems a shame. If I have spent time scouring loyalty free music websites and can not find anything nearly as evocative or interesting (at least to me). Most of the stuff that is copright free I would very much class as lift music. The end result is potentially that I either shelve the project or make it a less interesting creation. This is kind of what I was getting at when I asked whether copyright is stifling creativity.

Lets see what tomorrow brings. I am not hugely optimistic but I will try to remain open minded. Wouldn't be nice if the only person I had to deal with was the artist. Realistically I am not in a position to pay any fees (that it would worth their effort to collect) and would respect if they said no to my request to use their work.

* I am not going to say unreasonably, because each artist will value their own work differently

[johnkendall]

To follow up on this thread. Thanks Stuart for providing the link to prs. Obviously one of the reasons that I put this thread up in the first place was that I have project of my own in mind. I have my own video footage, that I have worked on, cropped, mixed, transitioned and timed correctly to soundtrack (that is not mine) that I wish to use.

Today, I phoned PRS to ask about licencing of that particular piece of music. After a bit of back and forth to get the right department, I started to make some progress. They were very helpful and polite but unfortunately were not authorised to licence the music.

I now have the name of the two publishers as well as their phone numbers. In addition to this I have the phone number for PPL who PRS say should be able to inform me who holds the original recording rights. Given that I wish to use the original and as opposed to a cover I require permission from both publishers and the who ever holds the original recording rights.

I think I will try to tomorrow to call these people to see where I can get, partly out of curiosity. Assuming that all three parties are amenable to providing copyright permission and there is some sort of non-commercial licence available this seems like it could be quite a lengthy process. I am not even sure what form or shape these permission would take. Could they be emailed, or will I have to sign or counter sign documents to be sent by post, from all three parties?

If there are any kinks in this process such as copyright being with held, the licencing process being to cumbersome or a licence fee being prohibitively* expensive then the end result is I don't have the right to use the music. At this stage my options would be to either;

1. Break the law and use it anyway (as so many people do).
2. Not publish the project at all or start from new and seek some other music.

Option one does not appeal, I don't wish to break the law. Option two on the other hand seems a shame. If I have spent time scouring loyalty free music websites and can not find anything nearly as evocative or interesting (at least to me). Most of the stuff that is copright free I would very much class as lift music. The end result is potentially that I either shelve the project or make it a less interesting creation. This is kind of what I was getting at when I asked whether copyright is stifling creativity.

Lets see what tomorrow brings. I am not hugely optimistic but I will try to remain open minded. Wouldn't be nice if the only person I had to deal with was the artist. Realistically I am not in a position to pay any fees (that it would worth their effort to collect) and would respect if they said no to my request to use their work.

* I am not going to say unreasonably, because each artist will value their own work differently

There are several Music libraries out there where you can get music for video projects. One that I use is Audio Network. You can browse the site, and pick tracks that you like, then you can licence the use of that music based on what you are doing with it, and the website will charge you an appropriate fee. It's around £1 per track for a non-commercial Home production (including licence to put on Youtube/Vimeo etc) and from around £99 for commercial use.

HTH
John

[Mikael]

There are several Music libraries out there where you can get music for video projects. One that I use is Audio Network. You can browse the site, and pick tracks that you like, then you can licence the use of that music based on what you are doing with it, and the website will charge you an appropriate fee. It's around £1 per track for a non-commercial Home production (including licence to put on Youtube/Vimeo etc) and from around £99 for commercial use.

HTH
John

Thanks John,

This looks more promising. In exchange for no faff process I would happily £1 to use some music in a video and stay clear of copyright infringement.

[christianreese]

I recently had to make a slide video for a client and I searched around for music under the creative commons licence. I found a site called BeatPick. I was amazed at how many different styles of music this site has and it's all free. My point is this: yes copyright kills creativity to some extend, but it also forces us to look for alternatives. I'm so glad I found this site because frankly the tunes I heard on it are a whole lot better than what's on the radio right now. I'm not going to listen, or even use, the crap they give us on the radio, no sir.