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View Full Version : computer cable interface: why still not a standard?



JPhehe
20-10-2013, 10:06 AM
Diving computer interface is still at Ice Age.

Does anyone know if the diving industry has tried to come together and create a standard interface? (on the computer terminal, not PC USB)

GLOC
20-10-2013, 10:13 AM
In all seriousness, why should they? They are there to make money from the consumer. Make it common and you lose a sale.

Some are moving that way with usb (micro/mini) at the computer end but the major manufacturers are unlikely to move away from their bespoke designs.

Regards

sheesh
20-10-2013, 10:15 AM
Thw models don't get updated anywhere near as e.g. mobile phones because a) smaller market and b) much less updating (how many people get a new dive computer just because it's the latest model).
With that in mind there is no commercial eeason for them all to standardise either in terms of increased market or payback from r&d.
All imho

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Logun
20-10-2013, 10:18 AM
In all seriousness, why should they? They are there to make money from the consumer. Make it common and you lose a sale.

Some are moving that way with usb (micro/mini) at the computer end but the major manufacturers are unlikely to move away from their bespoke designs.

Regards

Because it reduces their profits. I looked at buying a cable for my Oceanic Neo180 backup once. Until I saw that they are selling for 4 times what I paid for the comp S/H. There is no way a piece of wire with a usb at one end and a couple of funny shaped contacts at the other is worth the best part of 80.

JPhehe
20-10-2013, 10:21 AM
Just like most consumer electronics nowadays...ex: cell phones, cameras, was it EU that eventually put things together.

GLOC
20-10-2013, 10:25 AM
Because it reduces their profits. I looked at buying a cable for my Oceanic Neo180 backup once. Until I saw that they are selling for 4 times what I paid for the comp S/H. There is no way a piece of wire with a usb at one end and a couple of funny shaped contacts at the other is worth the best part of 80.

If someone is willing to pay 80 for it, it is worth 80. Just maybe not to you.

As per the CCR thread, and the comment above, just because the sum of the parts that you buy is way less than 80, doesn't mean that by the time you take into account tooling (both computer and cable) and the software interfaces, and the work required to assemble it, stock it, shipping etc and PROFIT, doesn't mean it is worth much less than 80.

You are thinking about just the cable, you also have to think about everything else in the system and that means redoing the computer interfaces too.

How much was the computer new by the way? Did you buy it S/H because it was cheap or because you wanted it? Would you have paid the new price for the computer? If not, why not?

Regards

Logun
20-10-2013, 10:31 AM
If someone is willing to pay 80 for it, it is worth 80. Just maybe not to you.

As per the CCR thread, and the comment above, just because the sum of the parts that you buy is way less than 80, doesn't mean that by the time you take into account tooling (both computer and cable) and the software interfaces, and the work required to assemble it, stock it, shipping etc and PROFIT, doesn't mean it is worth much less than 80.

You are thinking about just the cable, you also have to think about everything else in the system and that means redoing the computer interfaces too.

How much was the computer new by the way? Did you buy it S/H because it was cheap or because you wanted it? Would you have paid the new price for the computer? If not, why not?

Regards

True.

TBH, ive got no idea how much the computer is new. I bought it S/H because I was after something cheap to stick in gauge mode. This just so happened to be the first (fairly up to date) one that came up for a cheap price. I wasn't out for that model, its just what came along.

Logun
20-10-2013, 10:45 AM
True.

TBH, ive got no idea how much the computer is new. I bought it S/H because I was after something cheap to stick in gauge mode. This just so happened to be the first (fairly up to date) one that came up for a cheap price. I wasn't out for that model, its just what came along.

Quick google would have put the new unit price at around 240 when it was still in production. So a cable is 1/3 of the cost of the computer.

GLOC
20-10-2013, 10:52 AM
Suunto cables are in the 35 - 40 and probably have the largest market share with new computers in the 250-800 mark.

The Liquivision IR adaptor is $80 for computers/timers in the 300-1000 mark.

Regards

JPhehe
20-10-2013, 10:57 AM
The consideration as a whole is definitely not the relative price you paid (willingly/unwillingly), just because maybe I won a lottery and everything becomes cheap to me. It doesn't make sense.

Profits, yes, very obvious scheme.

If the industry itself is unwilling to progress, like the mobile phone industry once were, maybe this should become Google's next project. Bye Symbian, hello Android/iOS.

GLOC
20-10-2013, 11:17 AM
As sheesh pointed out, there isn't the market share for some of the major players in consumer electronics to get involved.

The last figures I heard were that there are around 50 000 divers in the UK. Of which (I am guessing), 90% would be happy with an air computer with a nitrox capability and the majority of which already own a computer. PADI produce some figures about their EMEA market certifications, but even if you said that there were 5000 people qualifying a year, why spend 300 on a computer when you can pick up a second-hand one for 100-150. Of that total diving population (50 000) want to download their profiles, rather than read off the screen and write it in the logbook?

Overall, its a small market when you consider that there are millions of mobile phones being developed and sold, with many of them having a 'life' of 2yrs? Dive computers - 10-15yrs...

Regards

JPhehe
20-10-2013, 01:27 PM
To eventually implement new interface means it should likely be a "running change": start with the new models, while still support older models until things get very old. No conflict.

The industry shouldn't have difficulty getting the global market figures.

And since each company already have different types of interface in their product lines, cost impact shouldn't be an excuse in the standard design whatsoever.

Chrisch
20-10-2013, 01:49 PM
... maybe this should become Google's next project. Bye Symbian, hello Android/iOS.

Dear god no. Please keep them away from anything and everything. The NSA spying on how deep you go and GCHQ checking who you buddy with. Then there will be the mid-dive underwater adverts for some inane shit that you once looked at on eBay by mistake. Then half way through the dive they will change the T&C of the computer and it will refuse to do the deco calculations until you sign up to 5,000 years of Goggles' scuba channel on your PC/phone/microwave cooker.

Google are scum - keep them OUT.

Scubacoach
20-10-2013, 02:41 PM
Some manufacturers went the way of IR and a USB dongle can be about a fiver from Maplins or Amazon.
Of course IR is not used so much by the mobile phone or laptop industry much now with them going to Bluetooth.
I would expect that would be the way to develop, though getting an "ISO standard for this would be v expensive as it would require experts and a committee to meet and agree the requirements of any definitive settings.
We would all have to pay with increased price at the shop.

NeilB
21-10-2013, 09:00 AM
My OSTC Mk2 has a mini USB interface....doesn't get much more standard, or common, then that.

Timw
21-10-2013, 11:19 AM
My OSTC Mk2 has a mini USB interface....doesn't get much more standard, or common, then that.

My shearwater is Bluetooth - why bother with cables at all any more?

(Except for charging...)

ziggi
21-10-2013, 11:21 AM
My shearwater is Bluetooth - why bother with cables at all any more?

(Except for charging...)

some mobiles are now using induction charging, no need to open the sealed dive computer if this was implemented alongside bluetooth

oh and i think the OSTC uses micro usb rather than mini , at least the ostc 2n does

Ian_6301
21-10-2013, 12:25 PM
...adverts for some inane shit that you once looked at on eBay by mistake...

Oh really...? Do tell...

jturner
21-10-2013, 02:25 PM
Oh really...? Do tell...

Have you not tried searching for rebreathers on eBay?! It's an education (well, for most people anyway!).

Rob Dobson
21-10-2013, 07:07 PM
oh and i think the OSTC uses micro usb rather than mini , at least the ostc 2n does

The MK2 used mini USB, the 2n and 2c use micro USB.

ziggi
21-10-2013, 07:09 PM
The MK2 used mini USB, the 2n and 2c use micro USB.
Thanks,my bad