full tec setup question [Archive]

1906johns

24-09-2013, 12:04 PM

1906johns

24-09-2013, 12:10 PM

Steve Clark

24-09-2013, 12:20 PM

The frog is good. I believe IST do one that is identical and may be cheaper.

The Halcyon Evolve is lovely, but the pricing has gone mad.

For regs, you can pay for whatever you like, but Apeks DS4+ATX40s or DS4+XTX40's are absolutely fine for all kinds of diving, simple to service, reliable and cheap in a good way. I not convinced buying anything more expensive is worth it, especially if you are going to need a few sets. Generally regs don't need to be used upside down if you route the hoses correctly. If you want to route from the right instead of the left, you can swap the hose over on a XTX (I think)

Steve

Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 12:42 PM

As long as you have two fully functioning shoulder joints, the one piece harness (DIR/GUE style) will be a good option. You can buy a webbing and the right amount of retainers and d rings, or you can buy one in a kit ready to go. The one you have linked to is not 0

Cyklons are 'out of fashion'. I loved mine, but my Apex ATX40's are more than adequate. If you hog-loop, then you'll be fine with ATX's. If you want to bring the back up reg over your left shoulder then you will need Apeks XTX's or another brand.

rivers

24-09-2013, 12:43 PM

Hi everybody
I am currently advanved ow + deep and i'm planning to move to tec diving, with that in mind i am looking at buying a wing. I have been told to go for a doughnut shaped wing over a horseshoe. So far i'm stuck between a frog mignight, xdeep zeos 38 and am xdeep ghost wing, can anybody recommend any of these ?

I have dived with a custom divers TDB on twin 15s twice before but have no experience with other types/shapes of wing bladder. I am planning on diving twin 12's and eventually deco/stage cylinders.

the other question i've got is on the regs - I am very tempted to buy posiedon cyklones, mainly due to the fact the side exhaust means they can be used the wrong way up, again can anyone offer any experiences/opinions on cyklones ?

thanks
alex

I have no issues with my horseshoe wing (halcyon explorer 40lb). yes, the donut wings are a bit easier to vent, but it really makes no odds. You don't need a massive wing either.
reg wise, i've got atx40s and ds4s. most divers i know have the same (or xtx 50/40 series), as well as scubapros and a few halcyon regs thrown in the mix.
harness: just get a simple one piece harness with 5 d-rings (one each shoulder, one left waist band, 2 on crotch strap). you'll pay over the odds for hollis, when you can get the same thing from dive rite or light monkey for a fraction of the price.

1906johns

24-09-2013, 12:48 PM

Cyklons are 'out of fashion'
is that purely aesthetical or have they gone out of fashion for technical reasons ?

Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 12:53 PM

is that purely aesthetical or have they gone out of fashion for technical reasons ?

Yep, everybody hates the look.....

Nah, they used to be the bees knees when deep air diving as the gas delivery was better at depth, but now it's just too uncool to dive on air past 30m, everyone is on trimix. Trimix @90m breathes like air at the surface, so the powerful delivery isn't essential anymore.

Also, their design is different to Apeks, Scubapro etc meaning they can fail shut. They are also better if dived every day, as they tend to do funny things if they dry out (surface freeflows, sticky valves etc).

I did like mine though, but my Apeks are better to live with.

1906johns

24-09-2013, 12:57 PM

Thanks for that information about the problems you've found with the cyklones. That's very interesting to hear, as a very good friend of mine swears by them and completely

1906johns

24-09-2013, 12:59 PM

thanks for that, How important are shoulder breaks on a harness ?

j_b

24-09-2013, 01:02 PM

thanks for that, How important are shoulder breaks on a harness ?

Not particularly. A correctly fitted oph is easy enough to get in and out of... slightly trickier when rib diving but not impossible.

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Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 01:03 PM

Thanks for that information about the problems you've found with the cyklones. That's very interesting to hear, as a very good friend of mine swears by them and completely

Most people will defend the quality of their own kit.

I might have got this bit wrong

Also, their design is different to Apeks, Scubapro etc meaning they can fail shut.

That applies to the Jetstreams.

But generally, it's accepted that Scubapro and Apeks are a much better choice in terms of initial cost, servicing and reliability.

1906johns

24-09-2013, 01:10 PM

have you experienced a lot of freeflow problems with the cyklones ?

Iain Smith

24-09-2013, 01:13 PM

thanks for that, How important are shoulder breaks on a harness ?

They're not.

Spend a little time with someone who knows what they are doing and a one-piece harness can be set up for anyone with normal anatomy (accepting that some people have had significant previous injuries which limit movement...then again, this is more likely to cause problems with reaching twinset valves than getting out of an OPH).

However some feel that a shoulder break is a useful addition for divers doing small-boat diving, where they need to be able to get out of the set in the water. Someone on here (possibly Woz?) has some sort of system involving an extra pair of D-rings and a double-ender to create a shoulder break which is "unbreakable" until the diver chooses to open it. "Purists" don't seem to have a problem without the shoulder break...but that probably comes down to having spent the time tweaking the harness so that it's just right.

I do relatively little diving which involves de-kitting in-water, which might skew my perspective. However, my perspective was also skewed by seeing someone's shoulder break fail as they boarded a boat and coming damn close to falling between boat and pier.

Iain

Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 01:17 PM

have you experienced a lot of freeflow problems with the cyklones ?

One. But it's not uncommon for them to hiss when first pressured up. The second stage can be a PITA if you don't dive them.

Seriously, just get Apeks :-)

Iain Smith

24-09-2013, 01:27 PM

One. But it's not uncommon for them to hiss when first pressured up. The second stage can be a PITA if you don't dive them.

Seriously, just get Apeks :-)

+1

Scubapro/Halcyon are lighter and route a little better. However, there's a significant price tag attached.

Go for DS4 first stages and ATX50 seconds. These are good (in my personal experience) for single tank recreational through to trimix cave diving.

If you really, really, don't like the DS4/ATX50 combo you will have no difficulty selling them on.

I have 10 DS4/(A)TX50 sets which I dive, rinse, allow to drip dry, then throw in the box until next time. Occasionally, I strip and rebuild them. I know others who have had Apeks which they've dived for 10 years without servicing...

Iain

Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 01:31 PM

I have 10 DS4/(A)TX50 sets which I dive, rinse, allow to drip dry, then throw in the box until next time. Occasionally, I strip and rebuild them. I know others who have had Apeks which they've dived for 10 years without servicing...

Iain

You can just 'dive, then throw in the box until next time' with the Apeks, just don't try the same with the Poseidon!!

1906johns

24-09-2013, 01:33 PM

thanks for the input gentlemen, you've certainly given me food for thought.

edward

24-09-2013, 01:47 PM

I know others who have had Apeks which they've dived for 10 years without servicing...

Iain

I was hanging at 6m the other day and noticed the 'service by' date on the DST stage reg I was breathing off was October 2007.......:)

Wilbo

24-09-2013, 01:52 PM

I've merged these two threads, as they are both asking the same question..

South West Diving

24-09-2013, 01:54 PM

You can just 'dive, then throw in the box until next time' with the Apeks, just don't try the same with the Poseidon!!

Strange, I used to!

But then again, I didn't need 10 sets of regs for doing 70m diving ;)

Elvis

24-09-2013, 02:10 PM

Not particularly. A correctly fitted oph is easy enough to get in and out of... slightly trickier when rib diving but not impossible.

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If I can get out of a OPH in the water when RIB diving then just about anyone can (previous injury excepted).

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Chris Thomas

24-09-2013, 02:12 PM

Strange, I used to!

But then again, I didn't need 10 sets of regs for doing 70m diving ;)

Must be our well 'ard northern water...

WFO

24-09-2013, 02:20 PM

Thanks for that information about the problems you've found with the cyklones. That's very interesting to hear, as a very good friend of mine swears by them and completely

the cyklons are a completely different animal from the jetstream/odins.

j_b

24-09-2013, 02:37 PM

If I can get out of a OPH in the water when RIB diving then just about anyone can (previous injury excepted).

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I have added that to ny list of things to see before I die ;)

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Elvis

24-09-2013, 02:39 PM

I have added that to ny list of things to see before I die ;)

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As long as you give me a hand into the boat your welcome!

rivers

24-09-2013, 02:42 PM

I have added that to ny list of things to see before I die ;)

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it's not impossible. done it in twins and a single. it's not ideal, and i much prefer a hard boat, but going out on the club rib is cheap.

edward

24-09-2013, 02:51 PM

I had a fab weekend diving from Plymouth Sound BSACs RIB the other month. The OPH was a bit more fiddly then a Buddy BC to divest myself of, but not as bad as i thought it would be. Certainly do-able.

j_b

24-09-2013, 02:53 PM

Just for clarity, I dive twins in a oph off a rib :)

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Stuart Keasley

24-09-2013, 03:18 PM

thanks for that, How important are shoulder breaks on a harness ?
There are two very definite trains of thoughts, those that will tell you that a shoulder harness is a failure point, and those that will tell you that a single strand harness is a bitch to get in and out of, especially if you're trying to rescue somebody.

Single strand harnesses do alleviate the chance of you losing control of your rig due to a shoulder clip failing, potentially an issue in water, definitely a nasty if it happens when you're getting out and trying to balance. They're also cheap and simple to set up. However they're not as easy for you to get out of, and a potential real bugger if someone is trying to rescue you (ask a skipper what they think)... the caveat there is that the harness could simply be cut, however you're then relying on your rescuer to have a cutting device that's functional, and that's not dropped in the heat of the moment.

Shoulder breaks don't have to be too much more expensive, basically get a single strand and then cut it on the left shoulder (you only need one break) and add a clip... the extra expense is therefore just the clip. That clip becomes a failure point, so you need to ensure it's looked after. If it fails during a dive (unlikely) you may lose control of your rig. If it fails exiting a diving, when your carrying and balancing the load on your back, you could be in for a nasty fall. However it does making removal a lot easier.

A midway point is a single strand harness with a shoulder clip fitted. Make the left shoulder strap too long by a few inches and then position the clip to close the gap to the correct length (leaving a loop underneath as slack). It's still effectively single strand, so failure wouldn't be as bad, unclipping gives you a little more leeway to play with.

For what it's worth, I dive with a break in my harness. The break is never undone when I'm putting on the rig, I sometimes choose to undo it when I'm derigging, although I'm equally as likely to leave it done up (depends on the situation), there have been a few occasions where I've needed to move quickly and have been thankful for it. However my main concern is whether other people can help me quickly if I get in trouble... I don't want to rely on them having the right training and/or right device when a simple clip will suffice.

Lofty

24-09-2013, 03:34 PM

My 2 cents is (Obviously bar those with limited arm/shoulder movement), if you cannot get out of a one piece harness, it is far too tight. Shoulder straps shouldn't be pulled as tight as they can be. When I release my crotch strap, getting my arms out is easy , and I'm not flexible!

Woz

24-09-2013, 04:41 PM

Getting out of a OPH on a calm sea is a piece of cake. You just need to deflate the wing a touch. I did a whole week out of Oban on a RIB and didn't open the break once.
In a chop where the RIB is trying to brain you repeatedly like in Plymouth in August, a break is a godsend.
When you're teaching dekit and land over and over again, a break is really useful to whistle in and out of your kit.
I use a Kent Tooling stainless steel weightbelt buckle as a break with a D ring either side of it that I can double ender together if I have to. But the KT buckle is by far the strongest thing I've ever seen- it's beautifully made. I used to use a plastic clip and while they're ok, they do get a bit creaky with twin 12s and a stage.
If you're scootering 5 miles into a cave, use a OPH. But I don't do that sort of thing, mainly cos I would get a bit scared and have a bit of a cry.

1906johns

24-09-2013, 05:20 PM

the cyklons are a completely different animal from the jetstream/odins.

how do you mean

hodge close

24-09-2013, 06:22 PM

Halcyon Evolve - Bloody Expensive but is brilliant and will see you all the way to your first rebreather and beyond. :D

Cryptic

24-09-2013, 07:04 PM

+1 Apeks FWIW

Woz

24-09-2013, 08:41 PM

how do you mean

Cyklons are a diaphragm/lever/seat like a normal valve.

Jetstreams and xstreams are servo operated- you suck open a little valve which powers a bigger valve to give you the gas. That's why the purge blows your wig off.

Ian_6301

24-09-2013, 09:44 PM

Wing: 40-44lb donut. Frog over xdeep every time, but 2nd hand halcyon if you can get one for good money.

Harness: stainless steel backplate and one piece harness. No need for a mega thick plate, a standard one is plenty heavy enough. OPH needs setting up properly, then tweaking for a few dives and after that, its a no-adjustment-necessary kinda gig.

Regs: you don't need to have then coming from the wrong side, you just need to learn how to use them properly. I've had cyklons, XStreams and apeks regs, but am currently using Halcyon HP75 first stages on my twins to get the hose routing right with an XTX50 primary. Every other 2nd stage that I own is an XTX40. Every other first stage that I own is a DS4. You can even use DS4s on the twins, but the routing is not as pretty as with the Hs. You can achieve the same thing by using DSTs with the 5th port kit, but the H regs are much cheaper. Total reg count is 2x H HP75s, 3x DS4s, 4 XTX40s and 1x XTX50...

Plus 1x poseidon Cyklon metal 1st and 2nd stage in my "for sale" box, along with an XStream Deco 1st and 2nd. Cos they are not that much better than the apeks regs at the depths they get used at and cost a lot more to service.

balbrigganbloke

24-09-2013, 10:29 PM

Ive a shoulder clip on my wing as has everyone i dive with
Ive never seen or heard of one breaking underwater
Kit is like cars everyone thinks the best one they own is the best
Its really a question of getting into the water and trying some gear on and see if you like it

Dive dog

25-09-2013, 04:12 AM

I have an Evolve 40 at the moment with a OPH but instead of a break, I have a KT roller fitted to one side. I just pull the shoulder strap and it gets longer. When kitting up, just pull the waist strap and it tightens. Simple and keeps inline with the GUE lot.
I have ScubaPro Mk25 regs but Apeks are also great.
I have had for a few years 300 bar doubles but have finally seen the light and gone back to 200bar.

SilentDiver

25-09-2013, 01:32 PM

I just took delivery of a DIR-Zone Wing, Stainless BP and OPH the thing looks and feels bullet proof.

I will be keeping it as a OPH but due to a shoulder injury with a loop/clip just to give me a little bit of extra room to get out of it as all my diving is Rib based. Possibly with one of these as everyone seems so worried about the plastic ones breaking 45 mm. Click ock Buckle, Stainless (http://www.makefast.com/acatalog/info_0384.html)

Regs I will be using Apeks DS4's with XtX50 main and XtX40 backup as that is what I use for my bailout cylinders on CCR so will just swap them around depending on if I am diving/teaching OC or CCR

Cylinders will be the flatbottomed 12's when I can afford them :P:

hodge close

25-09-2013, 01:42 PM

Oh along with the Evolve an aggir one piece harness/backplate and harpa are great additions.

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Paulo

25-09-2013, 01:47 PM

Over here OMS bungee wings and OMS harnesses are all the rage.

I was on a boat over the summer and of the 12 divers, 10 were OC and all 10 had the OMS bungee wing.

Another boat and there was 6 of us I think and all had the same wing again.

Terrific pieces of kit!!

As for regs, I would stick to the old favourites of either Scubapro or Apeks, depending on what you can get serviced easier locally

Iain Smith

25-09-2013, 03:08 PM

Over here OMS bungee wings and OMS harnesses are all the rage.

I was on a boat over the summer and of the 12 divers, 10 were OC and all 10 had the OMS bungee wing.

Another boat and there was 6 of us I think and all had the same wing again.

Terrific pieces of kit!!

There has to be an joke in there somewhere about so many Irishmen controlling buoyancy with wings fitted with autodeflation devices?

http://www.earthsongforums.com/forums/images/smilies/uhcullt1/smiley.gif

(taking cover!)

Iain

balbrigganbloke

25-09-2013, 03:21 PM

Youre more than welcome to come over and try telling it in a pub full of irish divers lol

Paulo

25-09-2013, 05:13 PM

There has to be an joke in there somewhere about so many Irishmen controlling buoyancy with wings fitted with autodeflation devices?

http://www.earthsongforums.com/forums/images/smilies/uhcullt1/smiley.gif

(taking cover!)

Iain

:middlefinger:

As opposed to the legion of clones ?

Chris Thomas

25-09-2013, 05:19 PM

:middlefinger:

As opposed to the legion of clones ?

So 10 divers, wearing the same wing on the same boat... no cloning going on there! ;-)

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Paulo

25-09-2013, 05:23 PM

So 10 divers, wearing the same wing on the same boat... no cloning going on there! ;-)

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:D 10 is hardly a legion now is it?

Iain Smith

25-09-2013, 06:16 PM

:middlefinger:

As opposed to the legion of clones ?

Resistance is futile... :-D

Chris Thomas

25-09-2013, 06:31 PM

OMS wings are the greatest ever. 10 years ago when the top tec divers were doing 300m dives, they were mostly wearing OMS wings.

Speaking of 300m dives, there doesn't seem to be as much willy waving going on these days. Has everyone given up chasing the records?

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Taffyplouf

25-09-2013, 06:53 PM

SWMBO and I have been diving DTD rigs for a few years now, originally designed for cave diving and seriously rugged kit. Check them out here: Wing set - HLBDIVE plongée technique loisir souterraine (http://www.hlbdive.com/en/245-set-wing-plaque-harnais)

They have both options, with shoulder break and without. The only additional issue with a shoulder break is that it makes it difficult to attach a backup light to the left hand harness if you want to dive in a "standard" config.

Dive dog

25-09-2013, 07:06 PM

Doomanic

25-09-2013, 07:12 PM

I have an Evolve 40 at the moment with a OPH but instead of a break, I have a KT roller fitted to one side. I just pull the shoulder strap and it gets longer. When kitting up, just pull the waist strap and it tightens. Simple and keeps inline with the GUE lot.
Are you sure about that? I use a Harpa and it's not compliant.

Dive dog

25-09-2013, 07:42 PM

Are you sure about that? I use a Harpa and it's not compliant.

With the Harpa, the webbing does not go through the backplate. With KT's winch system, the similar to the Halcyon Cinch, the webbing still goes through the backplate.

Taffyplouf

25-09-2013, 07:46 PM

HLB is about 300€ dearer than most places though.

:D the only place that sells them in my neck of the woods!
The link was to the full setup with wing harness and backplate to show the overall rig, you might be comparing with the wing prices elsewhere which would explain the big difference. They sell each piece individually on other pages.

Great kit though, if you can get it cheaper elsewhere then even better!

We also have OMS, Hollis and Frog somewhere in the back of the cupboard but we've been happier with the DTD stuff overall. The only thing that's worth checking from time to time is that the male hose fitting on the inflator is tight, I've had them come loose a couple of times through not checking it over often enough and have blown a few bubbles. Fixable underwater both times and avoidable by looking after it properly:think:

Doomanic

25-09-2013, 07:53 PM

With the Harpa, the webbing does not go through the backplate. With KT's winch system, the similar to the Halcyon Cinch, the webbing still goes through the backplate.I know that, I'm just not convinced you're right about it being compliant. Where are the chief Gooists when you need them?

shapeshifter

25-09-2013, 08:02 PM

:D the only place that sells them in my neck of the woods!
The link was to the full setup with wing harness and backplate to show the overall rig, you might be comparing with the wing prices elsewhere which would explain the big difference. They sell each piece individually on other pages.

Try Innodive (http://www.innodive.com/store/achat/cat-dir-zone-80.html) - they sell the DIR Zone incarnation of DTD apparently for a fair bit less.

Steve Clark

25-09-2013, 09:05 PM

I can't see why the harpa, roller or cinch are non-compliant with the GUE standards.

They are all continuous and minimalist. Except possibly the cinch, which has a few bits of associated faff.

Reference here :

http://www.globalunderwaterexplorers.org/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE_Standards_v7.pdf#page81

Steve

Davwardo

25-09-2013, 10:38 PM

I know that, I'm just not convinced you're right about it being compliant. Where are the chief Gooists when you need them?

If you do not dive a OPH, you will die.

Sometime in the next 100 years.

Probably.

Elvis

26-09-2013, 07:23 AM

I know that, I'm just not convinced you're right about it being compliant. Where are the chief Gooists when you need them?

Maybe it's just that much of an issue?

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andystev

26-09-2013, 08:11 AM

I can't see why the harpa, roller or cinch are non-compliant with the GUE standards.

They are all continuous and minimalist.[...]

If the harness were truly minimalist the harpa/roller/cinch/whatever wouldn't be there at all surely?

Spirit of Guernsey

26-09-2013, 08:15 AM

Possibly with one of these as everyone seems so worried about the plastic ones breaking 45 mm. Click ock Buckle, Stainless (http://www.makefast.com/acatalog/info_0384.html)

I have one of these on my harness, works brilliantly. I had it stitched on by a local cobbler, a neat and strong job.

Iain Smith

26-09-2013, 09:40 AM

If the harness were truly minimalist the harpa/roller/cinch/whatever wouldn't be there at all surely?

I think there may be a place for the cinch for hire kit. I really don't see the need on personal kit (assuming normal range of movement). Maybe it's a minimalist approach or maybe it's my innate Scottishness objecting to spending more money than needed.

I.

Dive dog

26-09-2013, 10:24 AM

I think there may be a place for the cinch for hire kit. I really don't see the need on personal kit. Maybe it's a minimalist approach or maybe it's my innate Scottishness objecting to spending more money than needed.

I.

I have one KT winch as my upper arms suffer alot with joint pain after falling from a high skip a while back. It also means I can de-kitt while standing without having to find a bench or back of a car.

Iain Smith

26-09-2013, 10:36 AM

I have one KT winch as my upper arms suffer alot with joint pain after falling from a high skip a while back. It also means I can de-kitt while standing without having to find a bench or back of a car.

My comments were assuming normal, uninjured range of movement. Post now edited. I gather I'm not supposed to apologise, so I won't!

Iain

Dive dog

26-09-2013, 11:42 AM

Naa, I demand an apology. Get GLOC out of bed again to sort this out before I start another thread.

No problem Iain. I was just explaining why I have one. The other reason is more simply, why not.
I also sell the things so I feel I should try and have real experiance of something I am selling.
Same as the sidemount kit I sell. I recently did a course so I could explain to people the difference between an X-Deep and a Diamond set-up and help people make an informed choice.
I recently had a man come to me for an item of dive equipment but I actually told him to go and buy a different product from another shop as that would be better suited to his needs.

BluDL

16-11-2013, 09:08 AM

If ur planning diving 2x12and a couple of 7s slung i suggest a wing with 40lb min lift but nomore than 60. Some of these 100lb wings are ott. Atx40 regs have seen me through alot of air diving beyond 'cool' depths without issue. With one piece harness the important thing is to play with it, refine everything so it slips and works comfortably. U need to know it well and where everything is before going deeper. Be honest about your capability and dont progress too fast. Be safe buddy

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swampy

16-11-2013, 10:06 AM

Can I just say - if you're going to use a one piece harness you should consider having trauma sheers on you at all times. I've had the unpleasant task of getting an unconscious diver out of a one piece while the we're floating in shallow water without being able to cut it (mine were still in the truck - I was in my clothes) and can tell you it's effing hard

Spirit of Guernsey

16-11-2013, 10:45 AM

You setup will also depend on the type of diving that you do. If off a RIB, a break in the harness is useful. If you dive in rough seas, a larger wing may be preferable, I use a 95lb one and it is great being able to float at nipple height while everyone else is getting a battering.

nigel hewitt

16-11-2013, 11:04 AM

<sigh>
Can we make the point that, despite the title of the thread, what we are discussing here isn't a 'tec' set up but a twinset.
Some of these donuts are great for simple twins but carrying big stages they are going to struggle to manage a big suit flood without ditching expensive kit.

diver1150

26-01-2014, 03:37 PM

Have used cyklon metal regulators for years and I like them on my stage bottles now, No wrong way up when switching,
Apeks tek 3 set on my back gas, As for wings I like OMS double bladder, All the best Alex

diver1150

27-01-2014, 05:01 PM

Also I would not go without shoulder breaks as you WILL be glad of them one day

Stevie H

27-01-2014, 06:24 PM

Single strand harnesses do alleviate the chance of you losing control of your rig due to a shoulder clip failing, potentially an issue in water.

Two years ago I was assisting on a GUE course, I played the 3rd member of the team on Fundies. During the equipment setup the instr gave me a long lecture infront of his borg on how my Apeks WTR Harness was all wrong etc etc etc and that if a clip broke in the water blah blah blah.

On entering the water I decided to unclip the left shoulder, I completed the whole skill circuit/dive like that. So people who state clips breaking in the water are dangerous are talking poppycock - a neutrally buoyant diver is exactly that, with no stress on the clips!!!

I do relatively little diving which involves de-kitting in-water, which might skew my perspective. However, my perspective was also skewed by seeing someone's shoulder break fail as they boarded a boat and coming damn close to falling between boat and pier.

Iain

And as for the idiot wearing his rig whilst stepping between boat and jetty! Well he is an accident waiting to happen!!!!

To the OP. Apeks all the way for your regs, but as for what wing/harness - as others have said you don't need a 100lb lift - max 60. Try to look at as many rigs as you can and even get in them if possible, then choose the one which suits your type of diving with the scope to grow with you as you go. Doughnut/Horseshoe? I'm not as experienced as a lot of people on here for Tec but I don't like large doughnut wings, they're great for 40lb max though.

For me, a double bladder, bungeed wing is a must.

HTH

Stuart Keasley

27-01-2014, 07:03 PM

Two years ago I was assisting on a GUE course, I played the 3rd member of the team on Fundies. During the equipment setup the instr gave me a long lecture infront of his borg on how my Apeks WTR Harness was all wrong etc etc etc and that if a clip broke in the water blah blah blah.

On entering the water I decided to unclip the left shoulder, I completed the whole skill circuit/dive like that. So people who state clips breaking in the water are dangerous are talking poppycock - a neutrally buoyant diver is exactly that, with no stress on the clips!!!

If you'd have been kind enough to quote the whole of my post it would have shown a balanced and open minded view on both perspectives.

I tend to find that's a far better way of teaching someone then simply shouting what a load of bolloxs at the first thing that dares to appear to be contrary to your way of doing things.

gaius

27-01-2014, 07:08 PM

Speaking of 300m dives, there doesn't seem to be as much willy waving going on these days. Has everyone given up chasing the records?

Check out this guy: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ahmed-Gabr/126058880919971?ref=profile

gaius

27-01-2014, 07:12 PM

Steve Clark

27-01-2014, 07:31 PM

Its a LOT easier to get a 'victim' out of a one peice harness if you just dump a bit of gas out of the wing before you start.

Steve

timmyg

27-01-2014, 07:38 PM

Its a LOT easier to get a 'victim' out of a one peice harness if you just dump a bit of gas out of the wing before you start.

Steve

Agree but for someone who doesn't use one they may not know.

I'd go for Trilobyte Eezycut - they're tiny and go through webbing like a knife through butter.

+1

TG

Iain Smith

27-01-2014, 08:31 PM

And as for the idiot wearing his rig whilst stepping between boat and jetty! Well he is an accident waiting to happen!!!!

Steve (also wrt your PM): It was a single tank diver with (IIRC) a Buddy Commando, not a twinset (fortunately, otherwise I think he would have gone down the side of the boat). You asked by PM whether there was a good reason for it? Depends whether you consider hand carrying a rig a not inconsiderable distance to be sensible. Equally, having worn the set to get it down to the boat, taking it off to hand it over, rather than simply stepping across, would seem something of a waste of effort. As for being "unstable" as you suggested in your post, it's was hard boat moored fore-and-aft to a jetty in a harbour.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I saw a twinset diver do anything other than wearing the set onto and off a hardboat - it's completely normal to so with both twinsets and singles here in the UK (and in many circumstances significantly safer than trying to lift and pass anywhere from 30kg upwards of twinset, backplate, v-weight, regs +/- light pack)

To the OP...

I suspect the OP probably made a decision 4 months ago :-)

Iain

David

28-01-2014, 08:45 AM

wow what a thread.. I dive cyclones with oph no break.. so what.. it works for me but you dive your own rig if you want pink fins it totally up to you. I seem to manage getting in and out of oph and in and out of a rib in any weather.
my Cyclones have been mistreated for years still breathing like they do ,just not quite as smooth as the newer regs.

if I needed a break in my harness I would fit one, im in no hurry to change my regs with twins and a few singles and a few stage setup I must have over ten second stages all cyclones.

I just go diving :-) hope that helps someone...

Major Clanger

28-01-2014, 12:07 PM

Wish you lot would stop harpaering on about breaks in the harness. They're simply not needed when there's a better solution. Have I mentioned harpa yet...

Stevie H

28-01-2014, 05:13 PM

Steve (also wrt your PM): It was a single tank diver with (IIRC) a Buddy Commando, not a twinset (fortunately, otherwise I think he would have gone down the side of the boat). You asked by PM whether there was a good reason for it? Depends whether you consider hand carrying a rig a not inconsiderable distance to be sensible. Equally, having worn the set to get it down to the boat, taking it off to hand it over, rather than simply stepping across, would seem something of a waste of effort. As for being "unstable" as you suggested in your post, it's was hard boat moored fore-and-aft to a jetty in a harbour.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I saw a twinset diver do anything other than wearing the set onto and off a hardboat - it's completely normal to so with both twinsets and singles here in the UK (and in many circumstances significantly safer than trying to lift and pass anywhere from 30kg upwards of twinset, backplate, v-weight, regs +/- light pack)

I suspect the OP probably made a decision 4 months ago :-)

Iain

Thanks, I got the impression it was a guy in a twinset, but I still think anyone wearing equipment that should be carried onto the boat is daft.

Stevie H

28-01-2014, 05:16 PM

If you'd have been kind enough to quote the whole of my post it would have shown a balanced and open minded view on both perspectives.

I tend to find that's a far better way of teaching someone then simply shouting what a load of bolloxs at the first thing that dares to appear to be contrary to your way of doing things.

I don't think you took my post the way it was meant.

You full post was balanced, I was just adding my 2p to the anti-break part.

regards

Stew W

28-01-2014, 05:45 PM

Hi everybody
I am currently advanved ow + deep and i'm planning to move to tec diving, with that in mind i am looking at buying a wing. I have been told to go for a doughnut shaped wing over a horseshoe. So far i'm stuck between a frog mignight, xdeep zeos 38 and am xdeep ghost wing, can anybody recommend any of these ?

I can recommend the Frog Midnight. I switched to one after ditching my APEKS WTX6 horseshoe.

I have dived with a custom divers TDB on twin 15s twice before but have no experience with other types/shapes of wing bladder. I am planning on diving twin 12's and eventually deco/stage cylinders.

As above. Go Donut (Doughnut, depending on where you're from)
Stainless Steel Backplate or Aluminium. I dive Al, but I'm a waif.

One Piece Harness. Cheap and cheerful.

the other question i've got is on the regs - I am very tempted to buy posiedon cyklones, mainly due to the fact the side exhaust means they can be used the wrong way up, again can anyone offer any experiences/opinions on cyklones ?

APEKS every time. Easy to get hold of service kits to do them yourself.

Poseidon can be a harder to get serviced than APEKS/Scubapro as only 3 blokes can do it they're all called Sven and live in Stockholm ;)

SonicStomp

28-01-2014, 05:49 PM

Thanks, I got the impression it was a guy in a twinset, but I still think anyone wearing equipment that should be carried onto the boat is daft.

Eh? How do you carry a rucksack - on your back? The cylinders and harness are designed to be worn. Trying to hand-carry a full twinset rig is asking for injury.

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notdeadyet

28-01-2014, 06:25 PM

Couldnt agree more. I'd rather have a hand free to hold on around water and boats as well as the ease of carrying. Reaching & stretching with a fairly substantial weight is pretty poor form.

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Stevie H

28-01-2014, 06:30 PM

Every single boat dive I have done has had the equipment handed into/out of the boat at the jetty, one of the first things I was taught was the "accident waiting to happen" thing when trying to walk onto a boat wearing kit.

Eh? How do you carry a rucksack - on your back? The cylinders and harness are designed to be worn. Trying to hand-carry a full twinset rig is asking for injury.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Couldnt agree more. I'd rather have a hand free to hold on around water and boats as well as the ease of carrying. Reaching & stretching with a fairly substantial weight is pretty poor form.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Don't you guys have any friends to help you carry stuff, friendly skippers who will lend a hand?

Dive dog

28-01-2014, 06:36 PM

I would rather be the cause of the "accident" than someone else handling my gear and damaging it.
Maybe I am just used to walking 200meters with my gear on while climbing over the dykes to get to the water so boarding a boat seems like a bit of a non event.
I have always carried my gear on to a boat on my own.

SonicStomp

28-01-2014, 06:54 PM

Every single boat dive I have done has had the equipment handed into/out of the boat at the jetty, one of the first things I was taught was the "accident waiting to happen" thing when trying to walk onto a boat wearing kit.

Don't you guys have any friends to help you carry stuff, friendly skippers who will lend a hand?

The truth is that I've done a mixture. But it's always much easier carrying on my back.

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notdeadyet

28-01-2014, 08:14 PM

Every single boat dive I have done has had the equipment handed into/out of the boat at the jetty, one of the first things I was taught was the "accident waiting to happen" thing when trying to walk onto a boat wearing kit.

We get hammered at work for manual handling, maintaining handholds, over-reaching, etc. I've seen a lot of people come croppers trying to manhandle rigs and big kit boxes on to boats. I'll take my chances.

Don't you guys have any friends to help you carry stuff, friendly skippers who will lend a hand?

A skipper that will load kit? Now there's something I've not seen in 20 years of diving :D Well, except when he thought his gel coat was going to get damaged.

Steve Clark

28-01-2014, 08:32 PM

A skipper that will load kit? Now there's something I've not seen in 20 years of diving :D

Once upon a time, Andy from Porthkerris helped a small girl lift my twinset back into their rib.

"What kind of ☺☺☺☺ brings a twinset on a rib?"

Par.

j_b

28-01-2014, 08:43 PM

"What kind of ☺☺☺☺ brings a twinset on a rib?"

Par.

Me, 'cos its all I have. And thats me ☺☺☺☺ to you ;)

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk 2

Badger

28-01-2014, 09:50 PM

Hi everybody
I am currently advanved ow + deep and i'm planning to move to tec diving, with that in mind i am looking at buying a wing. I have been told to go for a doughnut shaped wing over a horseshoe. So far i'm stuck between a frog mignight, xdeep zeos 38 and am xdeep ghost wing, can anybody recommend any of these ?

I have dived with a custom divers TDB on twin 15s twice before but have no experience with other types/shapes of wing bladder. I am planning on diving twin 12's and eventually deco/stage cylinders.

the other question i've got is on the regs - I am very tempted to buy posiedon cyklones, mainly due to the fact the side exhaust means they can be used the wrong way up, again can anyone offer any experiences/opinions on cyklones ?

thanks
alex

Hi Alex,

The xDeep Zeos 38 is pretty much spot on. Good value, well constructed and will do pretty much what you want to do now. The donut wings give you well distributed lift on a twin set.
The danger of going for much more than 40lbs with 12's is that the wing cab start to wrap around the tank making gas a little more difficult to dump from the rear OPV.

There are number of interelated issues when selecting a wing and harness some of which are important right from the start (lift) and some that are important later (double bladders, bungies) and some that you might not have considered (number of D rings you need) You are best speaking to the instructor you are considering training with or looking at different agency configuration guilines (they do differ)

I am based in Leicester ATM so more than happy to hook up to run over some of these considerations and drink tea or dive ;0)

Major Clanger

29-01-2014, 10:59 AM

Don't you guys have any friends to help you carry stuff, friendly skippers who will lend a hand?

Ask Elvis what can happen when you do it that way...

James-S

29-01-2014, 11:45 PM

Hi Alex,

The xDeep Zeos 38 is pretty much spot on. Good value, well constructed and will do pretty much what you want to do now. The donut wings give you well distributed lift on a twin set.
The danger of going for much more than 40lbs with 12's is that the wing cab start to wrap around the tank making gas a little more difficult to dump from the rear OPV.

There are number of interelated issues when selecting a wing and harness some of which are important right from the start (lift) and some that are important later (double bladders, bungies) and some that you might not have considered (number of D rings you need) You are best speaking to the instructor you are considering training with or looking at different agency configuration guilines (they do differ)

I am based in Leicester ATM so more than happy to hook up to run over some of these considerations and drink tea or dive ;0)

The zeos 38 is designed for diving large single tanks isn't it? I've got a hydros 40 and would say that fits twin 12s perfectly, the zeos 38 for twin 12s seems like an odd choice to me out of the xDeep range.