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BTS
16-07-2013, 05:01 PM
Wilbo Edit: Ordering thread can be found here: http://www.thediveforum.com/fundraising-forum/5692-summer-2013-tdf-clothing-run-2-a.html (http://www.thediveforum.com/fundraising-forum/5692-summer-2013-tdf-clothing-run-2-a.html)
All discussions regarding the thread should be made here - to keep the order thread tidy. Thanks.



more information added..

Can you clarify as to why an embroidered polo needs a screen setup?

Also, a fiver to embroider one shirt? that seems way above average price.

Logun
16-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Can you clarify as to why an embroidered polo needs a screen setup?

Also, a fiver to embroider one shirt? that seems way above average price.

I was thinking a similar thing myself. I can understand the setup cost for creating the embroidered design, but the embroidery cost does seem higher than average.

Wilbo
16-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Guys,

I'm just passing on the information that Christian from 6Fathoms has passed to me.

BTS
16-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Guys,

I'm just passing on the information that Christian from 6Fathoms has passed to me.

Appreciate that, he can answer....

Also, what percentage goes to the charities?

Seastar
16-07-2013, 07:43 PM
Also, what percentage goes to the charities?

Based on what we took, and then had left over at the end, it was 200 to each Charity. One of the ways this adds up is that many people group items together and the extra goes to the charity.

hope that helps.

BTS
16-07-2013, 07:48 PM
Based on what we took, and then had left over at the end, it was 200 to each Charity. One of the ways this adds up is that many people group items together and the extra goes to the charity.

hope that helps.

what was that as a percentage of the total excluding postage or if you prefer, pounds per item?

Seastar
16-07-2013, 08:06 PM
what was that as a percentage of the total excluding postage or if you prefer, pounds per item?

I don't know... as we didn't add x% to each item, it was rounded to sensible figures. I can give you total figures... Total received just under 2000, this included additional foreign postage as well, Postage was 200, refunds 100, cost of clothing/printing - 1300, charities get what is left. In this case a total 400.
The refunds were for items that went missing in the post, and where one person wasn't happy with the quality.

BTS
16-07-2013, 09:07 PM
I don't know... as we didn't add x% to each item, it was rounded to sensible figures. I can give you total figures... Total received just under 2000, this included additional foreign postage as well, Postage was 200, refunds 100, cost of clothing/printing - 1300, charities get what is left. In this case a total 400.
The refunds were for items that went missing in the post, and where one person wasn't happy with the quality.

Thanks, I think it is important that this, a member initiative, is open and transparent, all costings should be laid out and figures available for scrutiny.

Maybe this can all be done up front on this run.

BenL
16-07-2013, 11:54 PM
Thanks, I think it is important that this, a member initiative, is open and transparent, all costings should be laid out and figures available for scrutiny.

Maybe this can all be done up front on this run.

Seems like you've an axe to grind here?

Seastar
17-07-2013, 05:16 AM
Thanks, I think it is important that this, a member initiative, is open and transparent, all costings should be laid out and figures available for scrutiny.

Maybe this can all be done up front on this run.

Why now... We have been doing clothing run on the other place for years... Both Morag for the charities and Gary for the Chesh fund. We do it this way as its the only way that makes sense,
For example (these are made up figures) polo shirt 10, printing 2.50, postage 1.25. So lets round it up to 16 to include money for charity.
But if its a ladies small then postage is 1, and men's XML is 1.50. If we order 10 of the same size,colour then the shorts cost 9.50. Printing becomes 3.00 if the run is less 50, and 2.00 if more than 100.
Surely you can see that it's not feasible to be exact until the end of the process.

BTS
17-07-2013, 06:22 AM
Seems like you've an axe to grind here?

How so?




(these are made up figures)


So are not helpful, I have been involved in T shirt runs for clubs and have an idea how much things cost.

I am not being awkward here, as members we have a clear right to understand the costings of such initiatives and the %age going to charities, if the figures are not working then I would rather just give 20 to the Scuba trust.

It is not a difficult task to pre price this sort of venture, it is what occurs in business every day.

slimey
17-07-2013, 06:26 AM
It's not clear what the embroidery option actually is - are we talking about not printing on the back at all, and just embroidering the logo on the front instead?

At the moment, I'm veering away from the embroidery option due to the cost, but I could be persuaded otherwise...

6fathoms
17-07-2013, 07:38 AM
All, Re: Embroidery.

Based on what others have said, I presumed that the clothing would have an embroidered 'The Dive Forum' logo on the front left chest, with no print on the back. Regarding cost, yes, it is expensive. I have based this on previous charges for embroidery of a similar size. The additional set up cost is to programme the embroidery machine, to take the logo and digitize it, so the machine knows what to stitch.

Hope this clears things a little.

NB. If it helps, I will phone around today and see if I can reduce this cost.

EDIT. I have mailed Wilbo about what is to be embroidered, as different people want different things.

Ruffy
17-07-2013, 07:40 AM
How so?





So are not helpful, I have been involved in T shirt runs for clubs and have an idea how much things cost.

I am not being awkward here, as members we have a clear right to understand the costings of such initiatives and the %age going to charities, if the figures are not working then I would rather just give 20 to the Scuba trust.

It is not a difficult task to pre price this sort of venture, it is what occurs in business every day.

A quick search and you can get theses much cheaper as you know..
Forget about the couple of quid to charity on top (which we don't mind paying) ..why are these being sourced at up to 50% more than the going rate?
Just a question!!:)

6fathoms
17-07-2013, 07:51 AM
All, Transparency,

I am quite happy to show my figures, if people would like to see them. But as seastar said, I think this will need to be done at the end of the process. Quantities are constantly changing, and not fixed, which makes it difficult to pinpoint an exact cost not knowing the final figures.

Ruffy
17-07-2013, 07:52 AM
All, Re: Embroidery.

Based on what others have said, I presumed that the clothing would have an embroidered 'The Dive Forum' logo on the front left chest, with no print on the back. Regarding cost, yes, it is expensive. I have based this on previous charges for embroidery of a similar size. The additional set up cost is to programme the embroidery machine, to take the logo and digitize it, so the machine knows what to stitch.

Hope this clears things a little.

NB. If it helps, I will phone around today and see if I can reduce this cost.

No more expensive To set up than any other company producing the same items??

Not having a go:shake:

6fathoms
17-07-2013, 08:21 AM
I have spoken to a couple of companies about embroidery, they all have a machine setup cost, but need an image to assess the stitch count to give an accurate cost, so I will do this now :)

Mikael
17-07-2013, 08:42 AM
"www.TheDiveForum.com (http://www.thediveforum.com/)" will be printed on front and have the forum logo printed on the back, as in the pics below in blue, or white depending on the clothing colour. Embroidery will available for the front (at additional cost). Please highlight...


All, Re: Embroidery.

Based on what others have said, I presumed that the clothing would have an embroidered 'The Dive Forum' logo on the front left chest, with no print on the back.....

Looks to be some confusion here. From what I signed up to as per Wilbo's posts #1 and #2 we were getting print on the back and front with embroidery being an optional extra at cost. Now 6fathoms you are talking about an embroidered front logo and nothing on the back?!

6fathoms
17-07-2013, 09:44 AM
Mikael,

You are right, there is some confusion, me included.

I have mailed Wilbo about the embroidery.

Wilbo
17-07-2013, 10:24 AM
Looks to be some confusion here. From what I signed up to as per Wilbo's posts #1 and #2 we were getting print on the back and front with embroidery being an optional extra at cost. Now 6fathoms you are talking about an embroidered front logo and nothing on the back?!

No.

If you read it, it says:


"www.TheDiveForum.com (http://www.thediveforum.com/)" will be printed on front and have the forum logo printed on the back, as in the pics below in blue, or white depending on the clothing colour. Embroidery will available for the front (at additional cost).

That says: By default - the forum address will be printed on the front and the logo printed on the back.

-------------------------------

Some people asked about embroidery. I made a small assumption here that the logo would be embroidered on the front - something lost in translation in my email to Christian.

I guess then we have a couple of options.

1. (As per the previous run - and by default) the forum address printed on the front and the logo printed on the back.
2. Have the logo embroidered on the front and nothing on the back.

Mikael
17-07-2013, 10:52 AM
No.

If you read it, it says:



That says: By default - the forum address will be printed on the front and the logo printed on the back.

-------------------------------

Some people asked about embroidery. I made a small assumption here that the logo would be embroidered on the front - something lost in translation in my email to Christian.

I guess then we have a couple of options.

1. (As per the previous run - and by default) the forum address printed on the front and the logo printed on the back.
2. Have the logo embroidered on the front and nothing on the back.

That's what I said, print back and front. Embroidery optional. I was just pointing out that Christian was of the understanding that their would be no print on the back. Not sure where you think I have mis-read you Wilbo. Personally I am for option 1, aka sticking with the original.

Cheers,
Mikael

Mikael
17-07-2013, 10:57 AM
Obviously let us know if there is any change in price once this is cleared up. Keep up the good work.
Best wishes,
Mikael

BTS
17-07-2013, 11:48 AM
All, Transparency,

I am quite happy to show my figures, if people would like to see them. But as seastar said, I think this will need to be done at the end of the process. Quantities are constantly changing, and not fixed, which makes it difficult to pinpoint an exact cost not knowing the final figures.

It is easy to do upfront, ten of a style to buy in will be x, 10 - 20 will be y, 20+ z.... this is how, IME suppliers price things up.

As for the polos, I don't don't want a print on the back, just embroidered chest.... prionts on the back of Tees and hoodies I get but not he back of polos, it looks tacky... IMO...

Seastar
17-07-2013, 11:59 AM
It is easy to do upfront, ten of a style to buy in will be x, 10 - 20 will be y, 20+ z.... this is how, IME suppliers price things up.



Personally I think this is unnecessary hassle. The prices for the clothing is the same as last time, approximately 20% will go to charity. More is made on the t-shirts, less on the polo and hoodies. You have the choice to purchase an item or not. As you also are welcome to donate to the charity of your choice when you like. easy and simple!

BTS
17-07-2013, 01:50 PM
Personally I think this is unnecessary hassle.


I think it is important and I see no issue in provision of the figures, I am not asking just to be a PITA I simply want to know the costs and percentages, i don't think this is too much to ask.

As you have no part in this order I fail to see why you are answering on behalf of those I have raised the point with.

Wilbo
17-07-2013, 02:05 PM
I think it is important and I see no issue in provision of the figures, I am not asking just to be a PITA I simply want to know the costs and percentages, i don't think this is too much to ask.


I will post up the costs as supplied to me by 6Fathoms shortly - and I hope that you will be happy (as this really seems to be bugging you). You will see from the numbers that the clothing is being supplied at a competitive rate and that everything outside the postal commitments goes to the charities involved.



As you have no part in this order I fail to see why you are answering on behalf of those I have raised the point with.

First thought: How rude? I think Laura has more of a part in this order than you Paul - as she is handling the money for the forum and is our interface into the RNLI and the ScubaTrust.

I need to reiterate - nobody is making here - Laura is giving her time freely and I really do appreciate her doing this. I'm just an unpaid slave of the forum. ;)

Wilbo
17-07-2013, 02:32 PM
I've spoken with Christian to see if he minds whether I release the prices quoted to me on the forum - and he was eager to be open about costs.

Here are the clothing costs as we (the forum) see them. You will see that there is small markup in the price you pay - when compared to 'wholesale' prices.

Prices include VAT, but not postage and packing.

Tee male and female 8.16 (P&P estimated at around 2.50) - Forum cost 15. Charitable giving = 4.34 per item.
Polo shirt 9.48 (P&P estimated at around 2.50) - Forum cost 16. Chariable giving - 4.02 per item.
Hoody 21.18 (P&P estimated at around 3.50) - Forum cost 30. Charitable giving - 5.32 per item.

Where we can combine orders, postage will be reduced - and therefore the Charity pot increases. :)

As you can see - its a difficult balance between pricing garments to make them reasonable to you - whilst still giving a reasonable amount to charity.
If you bought one from the previous run - you will know the quality of the items you will receive - heavy weight cotton and good clear TDF forum logos.


It almost saddens me that some of the membership don't trust us enough to offer this Charity fundraiser without questioning the finances that go into it. :(

Seastar
17-07-2013, 03:05 PM
As you have no part in this order I fail to see why you are answering on behalf of those I have raised the point with.

I have no idea why you feel it necessary to insinuate that we may be anything other than trustworthy, transparent and honest when it comes to this fundraiser, or why you feel it's OK to be rude to me. I'd almost be offended if it was worth the effort, but as a trustee for Scuba Trust I'm more interested in raising money for good causes, and enjoying the sunshine and going diving!


Now back to the point of the thread - who wants a TDF 'top' we can't say when or if you'll get another chance!

Shaw-Tek
17-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Time for an apology from BTS...........

edward
17-07-2013, 03:33 PM
Still waiting to see how big my cylinder testing bill is tomorrow before I commit. 4 hydros, 7 cleans and a visual. Potential ouch moment....:)

Mikael
17-07-2013, 04:20 PM
Where is the popcorn emoticon when you need it!

Wilbo
17-07-2013, 04:25 PM
I've moved all comments away from the ordering thread, so we can keep it tidy.. :)

BTS
17-07-2013, 06:22 PM
I hope that you will be happy (as this really seems to be bugging you). [1]

First thought: How rude? [2]


[1] It wasn't really bugging me, I asked a question then had to defend and re-ask a few times, I only really asked once. Thank you for your second post, that is all I wanted to see, simple wasn't it, nothing difficult, no need for others not privy to the pricing to get involved.

I seem to recall part of the charter of this forum stated open and transparent as a key attribute, I asked for transparency, that is all.

At no point did I question anyones honesty I only ever wanted to know how much was going to the charities.

[2] You should have seen the first draft ;) answering a question about costings with made up figures is pointless at best, meddling at worse... Repeatedly answering one someone elses behalf, tedious and needless.

Now that is cleared up can I reiterate, I only want the embroidered chest logo on my polo, no screen print on the back...

Seastar
17-07-2013, 06:41 PM
deleted what I originally wrote .... changed my mind - not worth discussing

GLOC
17-07-2013, 06:44 PM
Now that everything has been cleared up (sort of), or at least we know where things are, can we keep this thread for discussing the items in questions, rather than questioning integrity as it won't get any nicer...

(Polite way of saying, please move on)

Regards

Debrisduck
17-07-2013, 06:48 PM
I'm more than happy with my T-shirt from the previous run, so much so I've got GPJ to order me another one :)

Darren A
17-07-2013, 06:50 PM
deleted what I originally wrote .... changed my mind - not worth discussing

I thought it was spot on personally.

Can you do an 'angry dentist' with a polo shirt :)

BTS
17-07-2013, 06:50 PM
rather than questioning integrity

Again. at no point did I question anybodies integrity, this is an assumption the masses have jumped to. I just wanted to see the numbers.

I don't think it was too much to ask.

Seastar
18-07-2013, 08:30 PM
Just a thought... if someone is added to my ignore list, would I still see their order? :think:

After all it would be terrible to miss out anyone who thought I was meddling, as Christian will only be producing and sending out those I say have paid ;)

Wilbo
18-07-2013, 08:33 PM
Just a thought... if someone is added to my ignore list, would I still see their order? :think:

After all it would be terrible to miss out anyone who thought I was meddling, as Christian will only be producing and sending out those I say have paid ;)

Don't worry - they can stay ignored.

I update the master list anyway. :)

6fathoms
19-07-2013, 07:28 AM
I have some pics, wish I had taken more.

Not sure whose this is, but I think its black
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/TDF/DSCF0211_zps75628942.jpg

White and black tees ready to be posted
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/TDF/IMG_3454_zps39c73d67.jpg

I think this is TCs cherry tee
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/TDF/IMG_3452_zpsbf5ad3d4.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/TDF/IMG_3451_zps8e531f3a.jpg

Just found some more!!

dark grey hoody
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/6%20fathoms/TDF/c47a25bf-ff1f-4735-8874-73bd713ff652_zps32cc8491.jpg

OMG orange!!
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/6%20fathoms/TDF/3864041c-7e60-4b93-9f59-389c525b3c2e_zps0b119290.jpg

dark grey
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/6%20fathoms/TDF/8ba7fd88-011e-4d31-9f3e-b91db2e8d740_zpse69343e7.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/6%20fathoms/TDF/15967dae-6fa7-43a7-adb5-1798a5547222_zps2f294fb3.jpg

6fathoms
19-07-2013, 07:31 AM
There was this thread too.

http://www.thediveforum.com/non-diving-posts/4382-got-tdf-t-shirt.html

Which shows a dark grey tee, one of my favourites.

slimey
19-07-2013, 11:32 AM
I have some pics, wish I had taken more.

Not sure whose this is, but I think its black
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae322/6Fathoms/TDF/DSCF0211_zps75628942.jpg



That'll be me :)

Yes, it's black, and I was definitely impressed with the quality of the printing.

That said, I'm more a fan of embroidered polo shirts, so I'm watching the thread for further information about a polo shirt with the logo embroidered on the front.

Spirit of Guernsey
19-07-2013, 11:54 AM
That said, I'm more a fan of embroidered polo shirts, so I'm watching the thread for further information about a polo shirt with the logo embroidered on the front.

Ditto

Wilbo
19-07-2013, 12:12 PM
That'll be me :)

Yes, it's black, and I was definitely impressed with the quality of the printing.

That said, I'm more a fan of embroidered polo shirts, so I'm watching the thread for further information about a polo shirt with the logo embroidered on the front.


Ditto

I'm waiting on the cost difference between the default TShirt/Polo with front and back printing and the Polo with an embroidered Logo on the Front.

As soon as I have that detail - I will put it up.

Crazy Badger
19-07-2013, 12:27 PM
I ordered a navy polo shirt in the first batch and am generally pleased with the quality and printing with no signs of peeling after a few washes. Only criticism would be that it holds fluff quite badly, especially around the collar, even after washing, which is think is down to the rougher cotton finish.

Going to try a t-shirt this time around!

Wilbo
21-07-2013, 06:28 PM
Guys,

More detail back from Christian on the embroidered logos. Bare in mind the number of people that are ordering embroidered gear (splitting the digitising costs) - or if someone can do this - the costs can be saved..



Sorry about the delay, the company I went to 'Tom Dooleys' regarding the embroidery, had 'overlooked' my email.

Anyway, we would be looking at a one off 20 charge to digitise the logo, so the machine can read it, and then approx. 3.99 to 4.99 per item to stitch it.

They were worried about the writing being fairly small ('the' and 'forum') but the 'DIVE' would still be quite prominent.

For my 6 Fathoms clothing, my normal print company charge 20 to digitise the logo and 5 for a largish octopus logo.

Its all down to the stitch count, companies charge per stitch.

The logo needs to be digitised to a DST format (?) if someone on the forum could do this, then we would obviously save this fee.


So the net effect is that the t-Shirts would go up by the cost of the stitching per shirt - as the embroidery is done by a separate company.

Is it worth it?

BTS
21-07-2013, 07:03 PM
The YD stuff was always embroidered, I don't get why it is suddenly an issue and an optional extra...

Wilbo
21-07-2013, 07:14 PM
The YD stuff was always embroidered, I don't get why it is suddenly an issue and an optional extra...

It's not suddenly an optional extra. It was always an optional extra - due to the costs involved.

The orginal YD shirts were 'Fruit of the Loom' which are 5 for a fiver to buy - i.e. cheap. It was easy to buy them cheap and in whatever colours needed.

Embroidery costs (which would have been the same sort of price) were added to the the already cheap t-shirt.

I checked the costs - and back in 2011 on YD - they were 16 for the Fruit of the Loom Polo shirts. Add two years, different shirts (heavier weight) and there you have it.

Paul - save your money mate. You obviously want best value..

BTS
21-07-2013, 07:26 PM
Sorry, I just checked an old YD polo and it isn't fruit if the loom, at least the label doesn't say fruit of the loom. Neither do the club polos I have that are embroidered and came in below 15 to the members, these are embroidered chest and back, that is a big stitch count.

Contrary to what people might think this is not about me driving the price down, it is about maximising the contribution to the charities.

IIRC we used to use large, established suppliers of workwear who have the infrastructure and ability to offer best value.

I will just make a donation to the charities, I was only buying a shirt as a charity event, I have too many shits as it is...

Mikael
21-07-2013, 07:38 PM
... I have too many shits as it is...

Bit of Freudian slip there?
:D

For what its worth, I think you were a unfairly maligned in the comments posts and keeping an eye on value is appreciated.

Logun
22-07-2013, 09:58 AM
Just for clarification, will the embroidered polos also have the logo printed on the back?

Wilbo
22-07-2013, 10:35 AM
Just for clarification, will the embroidered polos also have the logo printed on the back?

No. They will be plain on the back.

Logun
22-07-2013, 10:36 AM
No. They will be plain on the back.

Ok cheers

Foggy
24-07-2013, 09:04 AM
Will the embroidered bit just be www. The DIVE Forum....single line as per the photos or will it include the logo?


Also will these be sourced from ethical places (as opposed to sweat shops like the one which recently collapsed)??
I would rather pay more for a shirt from an ethical source than kill a load of kiddies to get an extra 20p for the Scuba Trust.

-Paul

Edit : oops my bad, six fathoms website makes it clear that all their garments are from ethical sources

Seastar
07-08-2013, 10:51 AM
As the order thread is closed, We have worked out the costs for the embroidered items.

The costs will be

Tees - 20
Polo - 21
Hoodie - 35

This takes into account the reduction in cost because it will not be screen printed, the additional cost of embroidery and the shared cost of the embroidery set up.

Despite their only being a few orange, 6Fathoms has agreed to including this colour.

PM's about payment details are now on their way (or will be)!

Spirit of Guernsey
07-08-2013, 11:20 AM
Paid

Seastar
07-08-2013, 12:12 PM
All PM's about payment have now been sent :whew: if you haven't got one, you need to let me know as I've accidentally made a mistake:s:

The Duck
07-08-2013, 02:01 PM
All PM's about payment have now been sent :whew: if you haven't got one, you need to let me know as I've accidentally made a mistake:s:

I've not got one.

Seastar
07-08-2013, 03:46 PM
I've not got one.

You should have now. :)