PDA

View Full Version : Are TDI missing out ?



Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 10:31 AM
Having just bought a rebreather I am in the process of looking
to do a training course.
I am trimix qualified on OC and it would seem that both IANTD
and PSAI can offer me a course that will allow me to use helium
in the mix to a depth of 48m and 45m respectfully.
TDI on the other hand can't offer me a course that allows the
use of helium just air to 45m.
I reckon I would be narked on an air dill at 45m and would much prefer
to have some helium in the mix I can't remember when I last dived air
as it's always nitrox or trimix.
My first choice of instructor teaches TDI and I would like to do the course
with him. Would anyone think that TDI may have this option on the cards
but not yet teaching it, they must be missing out ?

Paulo
21-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Can McGill not teach you through PSAI?

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 10:37 AM
Can McGill not teach you through PSAI?

I'm afraid not on my unit Paulo :(

Paulo
21-03-2013, 10:40 AM
Get a proper rebreather then lol

What is your plan so?

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 10:48 AM
Get a proper rebreather then lol

What is your plan so?

I think it's a Marmite rebreather and I have no idea if
I will like or hate it :^): but a lot of the features appeal
to me.
My plan is to cut down my gas bill.

Ken Hawk
21-03-2013, 10:49 AM
Just go dive the bloody thing, what could possibley go wrong :D

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 10:51 AM
Just go dive the bloody thing, what could possibley go wrong :D

Nothing that won't happen anyway but could just speed up the process :)

Ken Hawk
21-03-2013, 11:08 AM
Well I would go bite the bullit and see Mr TDI.
You can then sit on the posh side of the boat with Jane big Dave and me.
It does shock me the prices they want for the course mind :(

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 11:19 AM
Well I would go bite the bullit and see Mr TDI.
You can then sit on the posh side of the boat with Jane big Dave and me.
It does shock me the prices they want for the course mind :(

Three of yous, sounds very GUE to me and if I have a rebreather you
will be to busy kitting me up to be sitting :)

Ken Hawk
21-03-2013, 11:26 AM
Very gue
I have never being so insulated in my life, go wash ye mouth out with soap and sit on the naughty step for 10 mins :D

Frappawotsit
21-03-2013, 11:54 AM
Surely there must be other well reputed instructors that can teach you on your particular unit, under one of the other agency banners?

At the end of the day, if it's a reputable instructor, and ticks the boxes for what you want out of the training, does it much matter which agency?

Seems crazy to settle for Air only!!!!

rongoodman
21-03-2013, 12:06 PM
I'm in a similar position. I'm considering a Prism 2 after I retire this spring, and while my local tech/Hollis dealer really likes the TDI instructor who trained him, I wouldn't be able to use a normoxic mix with it until TDI MOD 3, even though I have a Normoxic card now. If I buy the unit, I'll be doing the training in Florida with an IANTD instructor, and come away from MOD1 using 21/35, with permission for up to 15 minutes of deco. That will be plenty to keep me busy for a while. There's a wreck from the French-Indian war laying at 95' in Lake George, and the last time I was down there on Nitrox I was definitely narced. I can't see spending $10K for a rebreather just to repeat the experience.

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 12:26 PM
Surely there must be other well reputed instructors that can teach you on your particular unit, under one of the other agency banners?

At the end of the day, if it's a reputable instructor, and ticks the boxes for what you want out of the training, does it much matter which agency?

Seems crazy to settle for Air only!!!!

That's my point, TDI must be loosing out.
But are they going to do anything about it ?


I'm in a similar position. I'm considering a Prism 2 after I retire this spring, and while my local tech/Hollis dealer really likes the TDI instructor who trained him, I wouldn't be able to use a normoxic mix with it until TDI MOD 3, even though I have a Normoxic card now. If I buy the unit, I'll be doing the training in Florida with an IANTD instructor, and come away from MOD1 using 21/35, with permission for up to 15 minutes of deco. That will be plenty to keep me busy for a while. There's a wreck from the French-Indian war laying at 95' in Lake George, and the last time I was down there on Nitrox I was definitely narced. I can't see spending $10K for a rebreather just to repeat the experience.

It's a pain and I'm sure TDI must know that they are missing out but hay ho.
Are you sure TDI Mod2 isn't normoxic ?

rongoodman
21-03-2013, 12:40 PM
As I understand it, TDI MOD1 is air diluent with no deco, MOD2 is air diluent with deco, and MOD3 is normoxic. It appears that the limits of the IANTD MOD1 course are very similar to their OC Advanced Recreational Trimix. TDI added light helium mixes to their OC Deco Procedures class a couple of years back, so maybe they can be convinced to do something similar for CCR.

Markymark75
21-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I'd be wary of a dil with 45m narcotic depth. You'll have more narcosis on the box due to elevated levels of carbon dioxide. Unlike OC if anything goes wrong you'll need to problem solve and will want a clear head at that stage!

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 12:56 PM
As I understand it, TDI MOD1 is air diluent with no deco, MOD2 is air diluent with deco, and MOD3 is normoxic. It appears that the limits of the IANTD MOD1 course are very similar to their OC Advanced Recreational Trimix. TDI added light helium mixes to their OC Deco Procedures class a couple of years back, so maybe they can be convinced to do something similar for CCR.

Have a look at the UK IANTD site
IANTD UK - Technical Diver Training (http://www.iantd.uk.com/courses-rebreather.html)


I'd be wary of a dil with 45m narcotic depth. You'll have more narcosis on the box due to elevated levels of carbon dioxide. Unlike OC if anything goes wrong you'll need to problem solve and will want a clear head at that stage!

That's what is putting me off.

Major Clanger
21-03-2013, 01:49 PM
Having just bought a rebreather I am in the process of looking
to do a training course.
I am trimix qualified on OC and it would seem that both IANTD
and PSAI can offer me a course that will allow me to use helium
in the mix to a depth of 48m and 45m respectfully.
TDI on the other hand can't offer me a course that allows the
use of helium just air to 45m.
I reckon I would be narked on an air dill at 45m and would much prefer
to have some helium in the mix I can't remember when I last dived air
as it's always nitrox or trimix.
My first choice of instructor teaches TDI and I would like to do the course
with him. Would anyone think that TDI may have this option on the cards
but not yet teaching it, they must be missing out ?

This is a good example of why agency choice can matter as much as instructor choice and why I went IANTD for mod1. My OC trimix cert was transferable, there's no bloody difference at the end of the day. Since then I can count on the fingers of one foot the amount of times I've air dived my unit.

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 01:53 PM
This is a good example of why agency choice can matter as much as instructor choice and why I went IANTD for mod1.


It would seem to be a wise move, despite all the
advice to pick an instructor and not an agency.

Paulo
21-03-2013, 01:54 PM
It would seem to be a wise move, despite all the
advice to pick an instructor and not an agency.

Who are you looking to get to teach you on the course?

Major Clanger
21-03-2013, 01:55 PM
It would seem to be a wise move, despite all the
advice to pick an instructor and not an agency.

I was fortunate in that I could get both, though who ever knowingly picks a bad instructor.

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 01:56 PM
Who are you looking to get to teach you on the course?

I'm still looking, I want to do the course I want to do :(

Major Clanger
21-03-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm still looking, I want to do the course I want to do :(

The course requirements are generally the same across all the agencies, it's the cert you get that's important, for insurance purposes etc.

Ken Hawk
21-03-2013, 02:29 PM
I'm still looking, I want to do the course I want to do :(

You must have more money than you are letting on then :D

Paulo
21-03-2013, 02:34 PM
You must have more money than you are letting on then :D

:D

Maybe he is picking up some of the crumbs that have fallen off of Team Delta's table

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 08:28 PM
:D

Maybe he is picking up some of the crumbs that have fallen off of Team Delta's table

All crumbs gratefully appreciated :)

Paulo
21-03-2013, 08:29 PM
All crumbs gratefully appreciated :)

Free Mod2, Mod3 and blending course ... not bad if you can get it eh ......

Capt Morgan
21-03-2013, 08:33 PM
I could live with that, if I could pass is another thing :grin:

dlk
28-03-2013, 07:20 AM
This is a good example of why agency choice can matter as much as instructor choice and why I went IANTD for mod1. My OC trimix cert was transferable, there's no bloody difference at the end of the day. Since then I can count on the fingers of one foot the amount of times I've air dived my unit.

Just interested to know what you mean by "OC trimix cert was transferable"?

TIA.

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 08:09 AM
Just interested to know what you mean by "OC trimix cert was transferable"?

TIA.

Where the agency recognises OC trimix Certs for CCR training eg iantd mod 1.

divedaz
28-03-2013, 01:16 PM
Just out of interest, what unit did you buy?

Ken Hawk
28-03-2013, 01:18 PM
just out of interest, what unit did you buy?

a kiss

Paulo
28-03-2013, 03:54 PM
a kiss

Okay but no tongues. You have to promise to tell me afterwards though

Kiss183
28-03-2013, 04:46 PM
BSAC don't recongnise the PSAI quals.... thats why I did TDI.... Simon TW did say at the time, what we had done we could have had a PSAI mix ticket... instead I did air dil with deco. Why not do a duel cert...?

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 04:52 PM
BSAC don't recongnise the PSAI quals....


How would that make any difference to anything? I ask the qu as a PSAI certfied BSAC member that dives the unit on club trips and sense a bsac bashing coming on.

Kiss183
28-03-2013, 05:02 PM
No bashing.... I faced the same questions when I did mod1.... and that why I did what I did....

Capt Morgan
28-03-2013, 05:02 PM
BSAC don't recongnise the PSAI quals.... thats why I did TDI.... Simon TW did say at the time, what we had done we could have had a PSAI mix ticket... instead I did air dil with deco. Why not do a duel cert...?

I don't think that is strictly true, down load this. (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp%3Fid%3D10001%26filetitle%3DRecognised %2Btraining%2Bagencies%2Band%2Bcourses&sa=U&ei=_YRUUdvhJMeLhQf6uIH4BQ&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHs7n10tyEIW7Z8F_mXR0qS5n2dew)

I don't think the BSAC recognize any KISS course.

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 05:04 PM
No bashing.... I faced the same questions when I did mod1.... and that why I did what I did....

Didn't mean from you. New one on me if bsac don't recognize psai qualifications. Might have to check that one. That aside, what difference would it make if they don't recognize the unit or the agency? In real terms, probably nothing other than limitations on being taught bsac courses on your unit.

Paulo
28-03-2013, 05:13 PM
Didn't mean from you. New one on me if bsac don't recognize psai qualifications. Might have to check that one. That aside, what difference would it make if they don't recognize the unit or the agency? In real terms, probably nothing other than limitations on being taught bsac courses on your unit.

Insurance?

JPTaylor
28-03-2013, 05:13 PM
I don't think that is strictly true, down load this. (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp%3Fid%3D10001%26filetitle%3DRecognised %2Btraining%2Bagencies%2Band%2Bcourses&sa=U&ei=_YRUUdvhJMeLhQf6uIH4BQ&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHs7n10tyEIW7Z8F_mXR0qS5n2dew)

I don't think the BSAC recognize any KISS course.

I can see a KISS course from TDI, IANTD & IART listed.... KISS is non-CE but BSAC allow it's use anyway.

Each individual course has to be refered to BSAC for review, I raised lack of Sentinel courses a few years ago.

Kiss183
28-03-2013, 05:14 PM
log onto the BSAC website and try kiss rebreather.... it chucks up loads of pdf's with all the info on.... its all there.

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 05:15 PM
I don't think that is strictly true, down load this. (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp%3Fid%3D10001%26filetitle%3DRecognised %2Btraining%2Bagencies%2Band%2Bcourses&sa=U&ei=_YRUUdvhJMeLhQf6uIH4BQ&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHs7n10tyEIW7Z8F_mXR0qS5n2dew)

I don't think the BSAC recognize any KISS course.

It looks like BSAC do recognize PSAI ccr courses from level 1 upwards for all units but strangely the entry level course isn't listed. Probably just an admin thing to get it on there.

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 05:18 PM
Insurance?

No worse position than any other diver without third party cover, which is probably most of them diving uk waters.

JPTaylor
28-03-2013, 05:20 PM
It looks like BSAC do recognize PSAI ccr courses from level 1 upwards for all units but strangely the entry level course isn't listed. Probably just an admin thing to get it on there.

The PSAI KISS course would need to be referred to BSAC Technical Diving team from review before it can be recognised. Just because they've done other units for PSAI the KISS course would still need to be checked.

Hot Totty
28-03-2013, 05:26 PM
It's only for equivalency - they don't as yet recognise sentinels either, yet they have my three iantd ccr quals logged onto their system so they know what I'm qualified to use and do ;)

Major Clanger
28-03-2013, 05:29 PM
The PSAI KISS course would need to be referred to BSAC Technical Diving team from review before it can be recognised. Just because they've done other units for PSAI the KISS course would still need to be checked.

That's what I said ;) BSAC recognizes PSAI courses levels 1 to 3, non-unit specific according to the list, but no recognition of the PSAI air diluent diver course. I don't read it as a unit specific requirement, the course requirement is the same whatever the unit, otherwise levels 1 to 3 would have unit types specified against them.

Capt Morgan
28-03-2013, 05:46 PM
It looks like BSAC do recognize PSAI ccr courses from level 1 upwards for all units but strangely the entry level course isn't listed. Probably just an admin thing to get it on there.

I guess I should of mentioned that I was talking about intro courses.

Barrygoss
28-03-2013, 05:51 PM
I don't think that is strictly true, down load this. (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp%3Fid%3D10001%26filetitle%3DRecognised %2Btraining%2Bagencies%2Band%2Bcourses&sa=U&ei=_YRUUdvhJMeLhQf6uIH4BQ&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHs7n10tyEIW7Z8F_mXR0qS5n2dew)

I don't think the BSAC recognize any KISS course.

According to that BSAC recognise the TDI and the IART and the IANTD kiss courses, they don't have an equivalency for the course, that's all.

But according to this BSAC Scuba Diving Forums (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=201362&postcount=11)
and this
BSAC Scuba Diving Forums (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=201340&postcount=5)

you can do MOD2 on a KISS in BSAC ;) (about 325 when I did it)


B

Trumble
02-04-2013, 08:19 PM
Only just catching up on this thread, I absolutely agree TDI are missing the picture, I did the OC Adv Nitrox / Helitrox course to 45m, i didnt particularly want to dive deeper with loads of deco but was interested in the effects of helium and was very surprised to see how much clearer 20% max made to my experience.

Now i've done a the TDI MOD2 (45m air dil with deco) I am longing for some He in the dil mix as i dont particularly want to dive deeper than 35m on air dil as i know how narked i get when i go deeper !

ok - whilst i could go get a 21/20 on my Heltrox cert i dont feel like i should as it wouldnt be "proper" and I dont particularly want to do a normoxic dil course (at least just yet anyway !)

T.