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WFO
30-06-2020, 01:06 PM
Anyone know what litre a minute of oxygen you need for broco?

Cheers

gobfish1
30-06-2020, 02:45 PM
Anyone know what litre a minute of oxygen you need for broco?

Cheers

How much cutting how thick and what depth .
12l cylinder O2 and a 12v car battery was taken down to a wreck used with broco to cut a bell of a frame at 100m plus:grin:. You can buy strike pot to egnight but they are expensive . 12v battery is cheap way to go . But needs a cut of switch . Sort of

Think it's something like 60 to 90 psi over ambient .
But read.
User manual on line in pdf .
Has charts for feed pressure / psi and other useful info
On not killing your self . Lol
Mind out for blow back tho
As it ant no toy

https://youtu.be/1v74s9aZesw.
I spoke to one of the two after the recovery about the broco set up . V nice guy sent me photos of set up and other info .
You can see in the vid the O2 cylinder and 12v battery going up about 3.5 mins in to vid

Battery worked fine back on land but the case was a bit out of shape from the water pressure so I was told .

MikeF
30-06-2020, 06:22 PM
How much cutting how thick and what depth .
12l cylinder O2 and a 12v car battery was taken down to a wreck used with broco to cut a bell of a frame at 100m plus:grin:. You can buy strike pot to egnight but they are expensive . 12v battery is cheap way to go . But needs a cut of switch .

Think it's something like 60 to 90 psi over ambient .
But read.
User manual on line in pdf .
Has charts for feed pressure / psi and other useful info
On not killing your self . Lol
Mind out for blow back tho
As it ant no toy

https://youtu.be/1v74s9aZesw.
I spoke to one of the two after the recovery about the broco set up . V nice guy sent me photos of set up and other info .
You can see in the vid the O2 cylinder and 12v battery going up about 3.5 mins in to vid

Battery worked fine back on land but the case was a bit out of shape from the water pressure so I was told .

WTF! I'd love to see the HIRA for that.

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 06:22 PM
Anyone know what litre a minute of oxygen you need for broco?

Cheers

12 ACFM or in your case 339.84 slpm assuming your using the 18 inch long 3/8" rods
You will need a good two stage regulator suggest an ESAB / MUREX M600
Rule of thumb a broco rod will cut its own length in 1/2" plate

Oh and run the power back to front. in other words make the current drain away from you
or you need to have a good dentist on account. Depending on your age I guess but if you have metal fillings
keep your mouth open and dont grind your teeth.

If you do clamp your teeth, you will do it only once. A good strong belt of DC electrical power across your fillings
will act a a good reminder not to do it again.

You could also consider the Arcair Stoody 5/16 rod its a little cleaner cut IMHO
Also consider Clucas "Kerrie" cable in a 50 foot long flexible roll ( cut in half) if you get fed up changing rods in black water.

If that is too much of a faff you could also consider Alfred Nobel Submarine Blasting Jelly if we are still allowed
to discuss these things.

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 06:53 PM
WTF! I'd love to see the HIRA for that.

Safer than 30 folk with a Chinese lithium ion battery charger on a yankee liveaboard

gobfish1
30-06-2020, 06:57 PM
Good regulator s

Think the lads in the vid used a old 300 cyclone . Been washed in daz per dive tho :rofl:
But I'd go with big dogs advice. To be on the safe side

Ps if your thinking of doing it all feed from top side . Your going to need coms also

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 06:59 PM
After a re read I should explain. Back to front in Plain English means:
Run the positive + to the ground plate
And run the negative - connection to the gun or "stinger" as its known in the trade
And a better description for what it is capable of doing to the teeth in your jaw.

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 07:02 PM
Good regulator s

Think the lads in the vid used a old 300 cyclone . Been washed in daz per dive tho :rofl:
But I'd go with big dogs advice. To be on the safe side

Ps if your thinking of doing it all feed from top side . Your going to need coms also

Ha yes, First you hear a high pitch yelp, then an expletive then the line " Make it Cold" repeated again and again for good measure LOL

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 07:08 PM
The first time I met the inventor of the Broco Rod was when I was working off Aberdeen as a diver for Sub Sea International.
I remenber it well. A lovely man held out his hand to shake mine, All three fingers that remaind of his right hand.
With a smile and these immortal words I will never forget,

"Hi my names Jerry Brower I'm the explosives expert"

gobfish1
30-06-2020, 07:29 PM
The first time I met the inventor of the Broco Rod was when I was working off Aberdeen as a diver for Sub Sea International.
I remenber it well. A lovely man held out his hand to shake mine, All three fingers that remaind of his right hand.
With a smile and these immortal words I will never forget,

"Hi my names Jerry Brower I'm the explosives expert"

Just did a quick Google of your man
Seems to have lived in interesting times.

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 08:22 PM
Just did a quick Google of your man
Seems to have lived in interesting times.

We are not even close.
It's a good job the OP didnt ask about "Kerie" cable as most of the stories I have working with Reg Clucas cannot be published.
Proberbly never. He's long gone now but his "Havey Wallbanger" and a "Hatton" round mix was nothing like what you think it was.
Same for the user list I guess.

But they are both interesting tools, need some gentle guidance you dont read in the manuals but all in all not a bad tool option for a specific job and beats using a lump hammer, bar and turfor. :)

iain/hsm
30-06-2020, 08:49 PM
Here you go 200 pages of Americanisms on the general subject of underwater cutting and burning
Read it like a Bible, read it once then read it again it will make a lot more interesting the second time.

https://waterwelders.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/US_Navy_Cutting_and_Welding.pdf

Do plenty of practice runs on land and remember to stick a little ball of wire wool down the end of the rod.
before "scratching" it over a metal 1/2 thick striker plate, dont blow the wire wool out with too much pressure
but it will "light" every time just with a little oxygen and a small electrical spark, or just wire a car battery

The shorter the rod the better the control of the cut but the shorter the burn time,
But IMHO waving the yard long version of a burning sabre about the place while trying to poke it
into the last cut you made in dark water is as much good as poking it with a stick, no fine control waving about the place.

And the gun trigger lever is too near your ear for comfort with the 3 foot rod when you strike up
Better with the 18 inch long rod for starters.

Oh and remember to move your left hand and fingers back along up the rod as the burning gets nearer to them.
Better not to forget that bit.

gobfish1
01-07-2020, 08:38 PM
From what I remember the guys in the vid just used a strike plate to get the rod started . No clamp to the work it's self .

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 08:13 AM
From what I remember the guys in the vid just used a strike plate to get the rod started . No clamp to the work it's self .

True two separate items, While I wouldnt dare comment on the video or recreational divers dangling a battery down with them next to a YBOD but imagine striking off next your left ear, while holding the 3 foot long version of the Broco rod next your right. So my take of it is was unless they intend to imitate Harry Potter waving his magic wand about the place.

You would consider using a clamp stand or stand off or rail clamp or something as a guide to rest the rod against while you cut, and save the Harry Potter theatrics trying to control a cut three feet away from your shaking hand. Even a length of bar attached to a couple of bear paw magnets would do nicely.

This allows you to concentrate on the rod approach angle and the stoke of the cut itself, than having the addition of looking where its going and trying to make a straight line cut. Broco is not the cleanest of cuts and probably the worse so any little helps especially if your making access or a manway or making any straight line cut. Maybe a different perspective if your not getting paid to do the cutting work. or if its a simple shackle removal, then the question is why the 3 foot rod.

jamesp
02-07-2020, 10:55 AM
True two separate items, While I wouldnt dare comment on the video or recreational divers dangling a battery down with them next to a YBOD but imagine striking off next your left ear, while holding the 3 foot long version of the Broco rod next your right. So my take of it is was unless they intend to imitate Harry Potter waving his magic wand about the place.

You would consider using a clamp stand or stand off or rail clamp or something as a guide to rest the rod against while you cut, and save the Harry Potter theatrics trying to control a cut three feet away from your shaking hand. Even a length of bar attached to a couple of bear paw magnets would do nicely.

This allows you to concentrate on the rod approach angle and the stoke of the cut itself, than having the addition of looking where its going and trying to make a straight line cut. Broco is not the cleanest of cuts and probably the worse so any little helps especially if your making access or a manway or making any straight line cut. Maybe a different perspective if your not getting paid to do the cutting work. or if its a simple shackle removal, then the question is why the 3 foot rod.

Commie I knew through the ski club, retired as a dive supervisor; Once commented on his first commercial dive, that:- " there was a ladder in Liverpool docks held on by a bunch of grapes".

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 11:45 AM
Commie I knew through the ski club, retired as a dive supervisor; Once commented on his first commercial dive, that:- " there was a ladder in Liverpool docks held on by a bunch of grapes".

LOL that's welding, but a good example of what happens when you hire onshore civil Mersey Docks and Harbour divers :(:
Liverpool dont count either besides any old junk welding is good enough for Sun readers I guess. The place is falling apart who is going to care.

London is no better Thames Barrier Project, Big job for Shiers Diving the underwater work was so bad the project design team at Randel Palmer and Tritton had to hire offshore inspection divers out of Aberdeen to re inspect Shiers underwater work. One of the offshore divers a Texan called Ted was called away from his hobby of commissioning Orkney old wives to hand knit oiled wool sweaters for his girlfriends business back home in the US of A to do the work. with another bloke who shall be nameless. London they said diving in AH3's it will be great party every night. The Shiers bell now sits at the bottom of stoney cove in quarantine with the rest of Leicester. While Ted still picks grit and rust out the side of his face from the rust from the blast out of the Shiers suface suppied diving compressor.:(:

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 11:53 AM
We should for the benefit of anyone reading this junk outline the risk of cutting underwater using oxygen Broco rods
in case any local BSAC PADI lot want to do adopt it in pool training. Heck on second thoughts it made no difference to them using oil in nitrox.

Enclosed below a useful US Navy document once again making useful diving information public and free

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a442691.pdf

jamesp
02-07-2020, 12:23 PM
LOL that's welding, but a good example of what happens when you hire onshore civil Mersey Docks and Harbour divers :(:
Liverpool dont count either besides any old junk welding is good enough for Sun readers I guess. The place is falling apart who is going to care.

London is no better Thames Barrier Project, Big job for Shiers Diving the underwater work was so bad the project design team at Randel Palmer and Tritton had to hire offshore inspection divers out of Aberdeen to re inspect Shiers underwater work. One of the offshore divers a Texan called Ted was called away from his hobby of commissioning Orkney old wives to hand knit oiled wool sweaters for his girlfriends business back home in the US of A to do the work. with another bloke who shall be nameless. London they said diving in AH3's it will be great party every night. The Shiers bell now sits at the bottom of stoney cove in quarantine with the rest of Leicester. While Ted still picks grit and rust out the side of his face from the rust from the blast out of the Shiers suface suppied diving compressor.:(:

When was the last time you went to Liverpool?

Most newsagents still boycot the Sun newspaper.

WFO
02-07-2020, 02:12 PM
If that is too much of a faff you could also consider Alfred Nobel Submarine Blasting Jelly if we are still allowed
to discuss these things.

Been considered. Too near to local residents even if I could get hold of any. Would only need about 12" of suitable cord as well and probably a neater job.

WFO
02-07-2020, 02:20 PM
We should for the benefit of anyone reading this junk outline the risk of cutting underwater using oxygen Broco rods
in case any local BSAC PADI lot want to do adopt it in pool training. Heck on second thoughts it made no difference to them using oil in nitrox.

Enclosed below a useful US Navy document once again making useful diving information public and free

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a442691.pdf

What's the "UK underwater cutting" method they're on about there?

gobfish1
02-07-2020, 07:08 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unused-Broco-underwater-cutting-torch-and-spare-collett/184344782245?hash=item2aebce25a5:g:3LEAAOSwU0Be5ll D. :nod:

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 08:10 PM
Been considered. Too near to local residents even if I could get hold of any. Would only need about 12" of suitable cord as well and probably a neater job.

Heck your not supposed to blow your local residents up unless your call your firstborn after that Amerian Boxer Cassius Marcellus Clay I guess, but you could try TATP Its a girls explosive pf very concentrated hydrogen Peroxide from the wife's hairdresser and acetone from the Nails N Beauty nail bar next door.

Here is what a 5 gram cigarette size looks like in the hands of local yoof. And why a soda can size brings down an Airbus 321 budget flight out of Sharm-el Sheik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVd5aC71pso

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 09:03 PM
What's the "UK underwater cutting" method they're on about there?

That would be Mike Jones ex Mobell Marine

http://www.jmtechnologies.co.uk


Also while we are at it another divers bible at 900 odd pages

The US Navy diving manual Volumes 1 to 5 in a free PDF

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Portals/103/Documents/SUPSALV/Diving/US%20DIVING%20MANUAL_REV7.pdf?ver=2017-01-11-102354-393

Planning and practice.

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 09:36 PM
When was the last time you went to Liverpool?

Most newsagents still boycot the Sun newspaper.

30 years ago maybe more for Liverpool. Installed a chamber there or near there at Ellesmere Port
and went over to Bibby Shipping once when the DSV Sapphire was docked there. I wont be back.
You need an armed guard for the car parking, most locals drive bald tyres toothless from crack.

Why do they still harp on about the Sun Newspaper? the truth hurts I guess.

Anyway Hydroweld can get you a good welder for when your dockside grapes of wrath collapses.
What wet welding is

http://www.hydroweld.com/2016-FSElectrodes.html

They also do a gouging electrode what used to be called a "Carbon cutting Rod"
very clean and much safer than the CS Milne oxy/hydrogen underwater cutting torch

http://www.marinevision.es/en/diving-pro/hydroweld/gouging.html

iain/hsm
02-07-2020, 10:31 PM
Cant do the subject of underwater cutting without talking about Reg Clucas.
He was far and away the master on the subject. He was the calmest of guys you could meet, as long as you didn't
talk about who shot at his fish out back in his pond. But with the range of weapons and rounds available at the site
and with the bunk room overlooking the pond. Who knows who shot his fish.

http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/4812/NEDU_1984_07.pdf?sequence=1

Clucas got out of the diving business before Reg died. But the other parts of the company is best known now is Clucas MOE is now run by his son Ross
I just looked up the web site so I guess its OK to discuss the underwater "Slim Pack"

https://clucas.com/

Reg had a collection of diving equipment from his Royal Navy days. Also included in that odd collection was an old beat up Siebe Gorman 12 bolt salvage helmet made in the late 1920's and used in the lifting and recovery salvage of HMS Thetis the Royal Navy Class T submarine that sank in 1939 during sea trials in Liverpool Bay.
The savage company who owned the helmet at the time were the Liverpool and Glasgow Salvage Association and used it in the salvage of the submarine.

Years later the sub was re named the Thunderbolt and was sunk for the second and final time in 1943 off Sicily with all hands lost.

And I guess my only other association to Liverpool is that the Siebe Gorman Helmet used in the salvage now sits in our kitchen and is the only piece of diving equipment I am allowed in the house apart from my watch and memories. Full circle I guess.

I did think once it would be cool to dive the old brass again but maybe not on the Thunderbolt.

Uboat.net on the subject for those bored keeping up isolation.

https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3485.html

WFO
03-07-2020, 07:46 AM
Heck your not supposed to blow your local residents up unless your call your firstborn after that Amerian Boxer Cassius Marcellus Clay I guess, but you could try TATP Its a girls explosive pf very concentrated hydrogen Peroxide from the wife's hairdresser and acetone from the Nails N Beauty nail bar next door.

Here is what a 5 gram cigarette size looks like in the hands of local yoof. And why a soda can size brings down an Airbus 321 budget flight out of Sharm-el Sheik


Yes I know about TATP
Not interested in home brew stuff*, been there, done that, got the shiny bracelets. Mis spent youth...

*Unless it's quaffable.



Do you need the coated rods? Anywhere sells them for decent price without having to buy a skip ful? There are some uncoated on ebay 200 per box of 25, 44" long ones so probably be a case of using half at a time (arcair slice ones)

gobfish1
03-07-2020, 08:05 AM
50 rods cost about $160 18 inch 1/4
230 ish for 3/8.

SMP sell something similar. ( Easy to deal with I found when I used them in the past v help full.)

Also think you can rap / coat them your self

Divex or what ever it's call now jfd used to sell shite to eneyone that had money .

Sure IV seen a few German out let's selling broco stuff to the public.

WFO
03-07-2020, 11:55 AM
I did think about just a wind of insulation tape around the outside with a bit of overlap.

Rod will probably be just about hot enough to burn it off...

gobfish1
03-07-2020, 03:00 PM
Think your on the right track .
Read it some place about DIY insulation tape job.
But it's been a long time since I was bothered / interested in a broco set up
To go with my bandmask.

I'm sure the big dog can pm you what you need to know if he don't like to post on the open forum.

Ps you can get spray on plastic coating probley work also . Tho a bit of old tape sounds Less faff.
Eneywho if you get up and running let us know how you got on . Have fun be safe ish .

gobfish1
03-07-2020, 06:37 PM
Ha yes, First you hear a high pitch yelp, then an expletive then the line " Make it Cold" repeated again and again for good measure LOL

iain

Is turning power off a safety perseduer and just good practice. When the diver has finished with each rod .

As IV seen some working divers ( like in the link )
on scuba regs tanks and hose fed using broco torch and DIY rigs for cutting and welding change out the rods with power still on . Notice they take rod out when not in use . Probley for safety then stick it right back in again and start cutting . On scuba regs no coms to top side . Other thing I noticed was they do move a way from the work / ground be4 sticking a rod back in .
Looks to me like they are definitely doing it all live.

Not north sea standard's but have a look tell me what you think. Live or not . Torch not the workers lol
https://youtu.be/-m-PLzPly3I
https://youtu.be/-5QXtD3eJ3s

This is a posh version of what the ybod guys used
https://youtu.be/anBjqGQ2T7M

Novel setup no top side coms
https://youtu.be/_ljcEOS9fY4

gobfish1
04-07-2020, 06:09 PM
I did think about just a wind of insulation tape around the outside with a bit of overlap.

Rod will probably be just about hot enough to burn it off...



Interesting DIY broco may be just the job .
Love the 4 quid air blower / oxygen leaver , Screwfix model.

Don't let iain see it . Lol
https://youtu.be/RQ6UEOmi2mA

WFO
06-07-2020, 12:53 PM
Not north sea standard's but have a look tell me what you think. Live or not . Torch not the workers lol
https://youtu.be/-m-PLzPly3I

The lump of hanging death shooting off downwards at warp 10 I thought "shit!"

WFO
06-07-2020, 12:59 PM
Not north sea standard's but have a look tell me what you think. Live or not . Torch not the workers lol
https://youtu.be/-m-PLzPly3I

The lump of hanging death shooting off downwards at warp 10 I thought "shit!"

gobfish1
06-07-2020, 04:31 PM
Yes lucky it didn't snag on the hose s right in its path.

iain/hsm
06-07-2020, 05:47 PM
I did think about just a wind of insulation tape around the outside with a bit of overlap.

Rod will probably be just about hot enough to burn it off...

For the Broco rods that's exactly what is used. Standard electrical tape wound down the outside of the rod for insulation.

The secret was they used to be done by a company in Hull that employed people with learning difficulties. Yeah I know not very PC but they used to do a better job making them than most offshore divers using them. The other secret ingredient of the Broco was one of the internal solid rods inside the copper plated tube was made from aluminium.

By contrast the Kerie cable was another interesting product initially Reg used a standard marine yacht coated wire with the heart removed, that made the hole for the oxygen and the plastic cover allowed both insulation and protection and gas retention down its length. A 25 foot length of flexible cutting would give a lot of cutting compared to the Broco 18 inch of stop/start change out rod frequency as your video clearly indicates.

iain/hsm
06-07-2020, 06:18 PM
For Broco there are 66 rods in a box of the standard 18 inch 3/8" rod, each box is 25lbs in weight
There was also a Broco 1/4" rod.

For the regulators for oxygen for topside supply a two stage industrial is better than the re badged Broco HVR 4401 but are two others to consider As for power cut off I think the old knife switches are not looked on with approval but a 600 amp circuit breaker is still good.

Also while you at it there are other options ceramic rods and carbon rods are both worth looking into
Also Arcair (ESAB) 5/16 rods Tuff cote rods and Sea cut yellow rods and Craftswelds 5/16 rods

Use a stand off or bracket attached with a couple of magnets and rest the rod or Kerie cable on the stand off as you cut.
Your cuts will be as straight as a dye and everyone will think your an expert cutter and burner. Even if you keep your eyes closed
which you shoud'nt or your fingers will fall off and you will inherit the I'm the explosive expert tag line. All the best Iain