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Jas kev
18-02-2013, 03:06 PM
soon to do a mix course but stunned by the price of helium.
whats everyone paying (yes I know I should buy a box but had to put that idea on backburner for a while)

Paul r s
18-02-2013, 03:11 PM
A local shop to me has tried to justified charging 7p per litre.
I believe the average is 3-3.5p per litre.

Graham Smith
18-02-2013, 03:13 PM
A local shop to me has tried to justified charging 7p per litre.
I believe the average is 3-3.5p per litre.

And what did you day to them in return? "I asked for Diving grade helium, not Unicorn farts".....

G

Paul r s
18-02-2013, 03:15 PM
Glad I'm on the box and only having 3L at a time.

Jas kev
18-02-2013, 03:32 PM
Would need to take out a small mortgage each time, wasn't enough space on calculator to work out how much twin12's at 7p a litre would cost

A local shop to me has tried to justified charging 7p per litre.
I believe the average is 3-3.5p per litre.

Paul r s
18-02-2013, 03:34 PM
We over came the problem by my buddy getting a J of diving grade free through work.

thetrickster
18-02-2013, 03:41 PM
I pay nothing. Only because I've chosen not to use it!!! - its just too MEGA expensive here.

For a 50L (J) its 400€ + rental. 4c a litre - and that is the price direct with the supplier, not via a LDS.

Jon Lavin
18-02-2013, 03:41 PM
We pay 0.08 US cents per litre over here.

BTS
18-02-2013, 03:45 PM
3p per litre.... or there abouts....

Major Clanger
18-02-2013, 04:28 PM
Bought a BOC 50 litre through our club for £158.00 plus VAT and 10 quid a month rental.

JakobJ
18-02-2013, 04:57 PM
We pay around £80 for a 50L tank of dive grade helium here (Denmark).

/Jakob

Gary
18-02-2013, 06:49 PM
How much am I paying? Not a lot!
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s85/warmwaterdiver/IMG_3005.jpg

Jas kev
18-02-2013, 07:11 PM
excuse my ignorance but how many fills with 35% helium in twin 12's would you get from a J

Ken Hawk
18-02-2013, 07:15 PM
excuse my ignorance but how many fills with 35% helium in twin 12's would you get from a J

Around a bout 4 from empty, 6 topping up :(

Elvis
18-02-2013, 07:46 PM
They'll have gone off by now Gary. ;-)

Graham Smith
18-02-2013, 07:59 PM
Around a bout 4 from empty, 6 topping up :(

I make it three fills tops without waste....from a 200bar J. After the third fill you have only 84 bar left in the J which would equalise out at about 56 bar with 80 bar required...??

As per Gary's picture, you can't run an economical cascade without at least 4 J's, (more is better) or a booster.....

G

BTS
18-02-2013, 07:59 PM
How much am I paying? Not a lot!


Giz some....

Stan
18-02-2013, 08:07 PM
What's the price for welding grade in comparison? If there is such a thing?

BTS
18-02-2013, 08:17 PM
It is a little cheaper than welding grade nitrogen...

Gary
18-02-2013, 08:44 PM
What's the price for welding grade in comparison? If there is such a thing?

Welding Helium?!

Ken Hawk
18-02-2013, 09:00 PM
I make it three fills tops without waste....from a 200bar J. After the third fill you have only 84 bar left in the J which would equalise out at about 56 bar with 80 bar required...??

As per Gary's picture, you can't run an economical cascade without at least 4 J's, (more is better) or a booster.....

G
Thats why I said 4ish, I do have a booster pump and yes helium is a pita to boost lol
Once we start on the helium it is normally a top up from around 80 to 100bar.
As you know the best way is to have 2 twimsets 1 for he 1 for air (or 32% to you) ;)

dwhitlow
19-02-2013, 07:20 AM
I make it three fills tops without waste
:fubar:Sheesh! What a waste! No wonder helium is a diminishing resource!

Graham Smith
19-02-2013, 07:41 AM
:fubar:Sheesh! What a waste! No wonder helium is a diminishing resource!

So off you.... ;)

Nah, THIS is a waste....(Felix's balloon, but don't those helium cylinders fill you with envy?).

http://shinesquad.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/deflated-balloon-felix-baumgartner.png

dwhitlow
19-02-2013, 10:53 AM
Sod off you.... ;)

Nah, THIS is a waste....(Felix's balloon, but don't those helium cylinders fill you with envy?).

http://shinesquad.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/deflated-balloon-felix-baumgartner.png
That was an outrageous waste of helium for a completely pointless endeavour!

Just one of those cylinders would be all the helium I would need in a very very long time!

Davs
19-02-2013, 12:09 PM
Quit wasting helium! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/a-ballooning-problem-the-great-helium-shortage-8439108.html

Suspect Device
19-02-2013, 12:16 PM
8 cents a litre.

Jas kev
19-02-2013, 12:22 PM
Deep air the way forward. Time to hit the deep stuff before it gets more expensive and only available from dodgy clowns selling it at the back of the Big Top.:D
Quit wasting helium! A ballooning problem: the great helium shortage - Science - News - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/a-ballooning-problem-the-great-helium-shortage-8439108.html)

Major Clanger
19-02-2013, 02:35 PM
That was an outrageous waste of helium for a completely pointless endeavour!

Just one of those cylinders would be all the helium I would need in a very very long time!

I doubt recreational divers needs come high up in the grown ups list of priorities for conserving stocks. We may take it all seriously, defining tech and rec differences but to the outside world, it's just another sporting activity that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Far more important needs for it than divers wanting to pull stuff of wrecks keeping a clear head ;)

Major Clanger
19-02-2013, 02:35 PM
...

Mark Chase
19-02-2013, 02:48 PM
Welding Helium?!

Gas metal arc welding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_metal_arc_welding)

Mark Chase
19-02-2013, 02:55 PM
excuse my ignorance but how many fills with 35% helium in twin 12's would you get from a J


J = 50ltrs X 300 bar so 15,000ltrs


SO asuming you could scavange it all.

In a twinset for 35% you will need 1974 ltrs He so about 7 fills out of a 300 bar 50l say 9 or 10 with top offs


To do a dive on CCR you would need 240ltrs He (asumng 80 bar usage out of a 3ltr 235 bar) so about 62 dives on a CCR out of a 50 ltr J


So its a little more economical :D

Id go streight to CCR if your thinking of doing trimix diving.

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
19-02-2013, 03:01 PM
Where do you get 300 bar 50 litre jobbies from?

Mark Chase
19-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Where do you get 300 bar 50 litre jobbies from?


Lindi (Now BOC isnt it?) In kent

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
19-02-2013, 08:30 PM
Lindi (Now BOC isnt it?) In kent

ATB

Mark

Have to look them up, only ones we get are 200 bar.

Graham Smith
20-02-2013, 05:20 AM
Where do you get 300 bar 50 litre jobbies from?


Lindi (Now BOC isnt it?) In kent

ATB

Mark

Is that diving grade? I ask as we use BOC and can only get the "L" size "J" which is 200b. The O2 is "XL" sized "J" at 230b (Yes, the invoices are very confusing).

If they do offer diving grade at 300b its something I'd quite like to look into....

G

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 06:20 AM
Is that diving grade? I ask as we use BOC and can only get the "L" size "J" which is 200b. The O2 is "XL" sized "J" at 230b (Yes, the invoices are very confusing).

If they do offer diving grade at 300b its something I'd quite like to look into....

G


What is diving grade?

I was getting N4 which is 99.99% but it goes up to N7 which is 99.999999

Just to confuse you further, I thaught the J was called a W??

ATB

Mark

BTS
20-02-2013, 06:24 AM
What is diving grade?


THis is a fair question, until you put it in someone elses tanks for money then diving grade is the paper trail that helps with any possible litigation...

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 06:35 AM
THis is a fair question, until you put it in someone elses tanks for money then diving grade is the paper trail that helps with any possible litigation...


Yes but what is Diving grade? because BOC dont know. They just offer N1 to N7 then you take your pick.

Does diving grade have to be N4 or N7? I dont know.

ATB

Mark

Graham Smith
20-02-2013, 06:39 AM
What is diving grade?

I was getting N4 which is 99.99% but it goes up to N7 which is 99.999999

Just to confuse you further, I thaught the J was called a W??

ATB

Mark

What is diving grade? I think it is a small label that allows a 30% uplift in the price they charge.... :(

the N4 and N7 you refer to is the decimal places, the larger the number, the more decimals of purity that it is certified to. As we know, it all comes out of the same supply tanks and is another way to justify an uplift in price.... :(

G

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 06:49 AM
What is diving grade? I think it is a small label that allows a 30% uplift in the price they charge.... :(

the N4 and N7 you refer to is the decimal places, the larger the number, the more decimals of purity that it is certified to. As we know, it all comes out of the same supply tanks and is another way to justify an uplift in price.... :(

G


I might be being thick here but can you just tell me, if you get diving grade delivered what N number it has on it?

I genuinly dont know what N value qualifies as diving grade.

I asked BOC for info on diving grade He when i opened my account but they just refered me to the N chart

ATB

Mark

BTS
20-02-2013, 09:22 AM
Ok, just got off the phone to BOC, we buy He for the hospital, shame I can't get to it we have 100s of 1000s of litres of the stuff.

The N rating applies to medical and research grades with research being the purest at 99.999999

Diving grade doesn't come under the N grading system but is a minimum of 99.5% pure and a maximum of 100% pure

It appears the N value simply represents the number of decimal places so N1 is good enough for diving and N6 is research grade, this is what understood fromt he very helpful young lady on the other end of the phone...

Fi2s
20-02-2013, 09:45 AM
In Greece He 5 (99.999%) is considered suitable for breathing use and the price depending the supplier is between 170 and 190 Euros plus VAT for almost 9.1 cubic meters (50l tank 200bar). You can get He 4.6 (99.996) and balloon grade HE for much less though not intended for diving use.

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 10:05 AM
Ok, just got off the phone to BOC, we buy He for the hospital, shame I can't get to it we have 100s of 1000s of litres of the stuff.

The N rating applies to medical and research grades with research being the purest at 99.999999

Diving grade doesn't come under the N grading system but is a minimum of 99.5% pure and a maximum of 100% pure

It appears the N value simply represents the number of decimal places so N1 is good enough for diving and N6 is research grade, this is what understood fromt he very helpful young lady on the other end of the phone...

Cool so basicly my N4 grade 99.99% pure is above diving grade which only guarentees to be minimum 99.5% pure

It would seem I could drop to N3 (99.9) and still be inside diving grade



Lets put this into perspective.

With N4 we are talking about 0.01% of say max 65% of the gas in my breathing mix.

I very much doubt if my compressor can match that for levels of contaminants.



ATB

Mark

Graham Smith
20-02-2013, 10:32 AM
I KNOW your compressor can't match that for contaminants ;)

(If its the one I'm thinking of)

G

Major Clanger
20-02-2013, 10:39 AM
Yes but what is Diving grade? because BOC dont know. They just offer N1 to N7 then you take your pick.

Does diving grade have to be N4 or N7? I dont know.

ATB

Mark

My He cylinder from BOC has diving grade stamped on the cylinder, so someone there knows. Good enough for me, back to these He 300 bar cylinders. Who, what, where. I can't find any supplied by BOC, certified suitable for diving or otherwise.

Stan
20-02-2013, 06:20 PM
Playing devil's advocate - if you're not selling it and you don't own an analyser accurate to 4 decimal places, it could be ok to use 99.9%? Going by some of the purities quoted, that would be classed as floor sweepings*/any old shit??!!

If something is 99.99 or 99.999999, you'll never be able to measure it anyway. If you can never measure it, then you must be happy to dive it? Even if your analyser is +/-2%, it still makes the expense of the .99999% not really worth worrying about.

Unless you're selling it that is. I'm just interested as thinking of homebrewing in the future....

* well, ceiling sweepings cos it won't by lying on the floor!

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 08:41 PM
My He cylinder from BOC has diving grade stamped on the cylinder, so someone there knows. Good enough for me, back to these He 300 bar cylinders. Who, what, where. I can't find any supplied by BOC, certified suitable for diving or otherwise.



You miss the point a bit

Yes they sell diving grade but the point was, what is the purity of diving grade?

Its been identified as 99.5 + so anything above N3 grade Helium is diving grade or better than diving grade.

So to avoid all the bullshit which goes with ordering anythng diving related, Id just order N3 or N4 grade.

When i get my hoses fixed by Pirtec i tell them its for Paint Ball. If i tell them its for diving they won't touch it.

ATB

Mark

Mark Chase
20-02-2013, 08:43 PM
I KNOW your compressor can't match that for contaminants ;)

(If its the one I'm thinking of)

G



See I knew it was a cunning GUE plot to kll me off when I got it so cheep :D

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
20-02-2013, 09:12 PM
You miss the point a bit

Yes they sell diving grade but the point was, what is the purity of diving grade?

Its been identified as 99.5 + so anything above N3 grade Helium is diving grade or better than diving grade.

So to avoid all the bullshit which goes with ordering anythng diving related, Id just order N3 or N4 grade.

When i get my hoses fixed by Pirtec i tell them its for Paint Ball. If i tell them its for diving they won't touch it.

ATB

Mark

Nah I didn't miss the point about purity but I am missing the bit where you confirmed where you get 300 bar 50 litre helium cylinders from. BOC don't appear to supply them. Do you have a reference for the cylinder type?

Major Clanger
20-02-2013, 09:20 PM
*academic question anyway probably. Last time I visited local boc they said they had no helium of any type and didn't know when they would. Time I called on them again.

Neil Brock
20-02-2013, 09:42 PM
Evening chaps,

You have all missed a trick here, it's not the purity that kills, it's the impurity !
98% He won't hurt you but the other 2% of fart gas / chlorine / butane / CO / CO2 etc might.

BOC don't have a helium "N" product 99.5, (N2.5), it's 99.0% (N2.0) or 99.9% (N3.0) you could ask for N2.5 which would be 99.5 but that only guaranties the purity of the He content.
More importantly, BOC stock blends for pure He range from N4.6 through to N6.0 with a few odd ones in between.

N3.0 guaranties 99.9 He and, 1000ppm impurities, so with that 1000 ppm impurities you would easily hide your carbon dioxide, <500 ppm, and never spot your carbon monoxide, <3ppm !


"Diving" grade He is measured by the rule of nines, but has its own spec. and test regime, specifically to test for impurities that would prove more problematic at depth, than on the surface.

The reason being that BOC supply more than just us using helium for diving, most commercial companies taking 2/98, with odd exemption being 100%, but Might be taking it to say 300msw, 31 BA, where even minor impurities count !


9's purity explained here.......

Purity, Grades and Concentration - Contact & Support > Technical Advice and Resources > Speciality Products Technical Information > Purity and Grades | BOConline UK (http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/contact-and-support/technical-advice/speciality-products-advice/purity-grades-concentration/purity-grades.html)

And here.........

http://www.boconline.co.uk/internet.lg.lg.gbr/en/images/pure-gas-product-code-and-listings410_39560.pdf

And although my analyser might be + - 1%, it's nice to know that a man with a gas ghromatagraph or other equally efficient method has checked it I suspect.

Somewhere I have an email from BOC and Air Products explaining the process, I will try and find it.

Cheers :grin:

Ken Hawk
20-02-2013, 09:52 PM
What about the 300bar question Neil

Neil Brock
20-02-2013, 09:56 PM
What about the 300bar question Neil

See page 10.......

http://www.boconline.co.uk/internet....s410_39560.pdf

And speak to Mr. BOC. The link shows product range from 2009, (no 300bar diving grade He) but its 2013 now so give em a call.

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 06:27 AM
Don't be boring Neil. If we fill our tins with balloon gas and welding gas then top up from a ropey old compressor, what could possibly go wrong... :)

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 08:03 AM
Nah I didn't miss the point about purity but I am missing the bit where you confirmed where you get 300 bar 50 litre helium cylinders from. BOC don't appear to supply them. Do you have a reference for the cylinder type?


Sorry cant help i didn't order them myself

but they are 300bar


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/20130221_085304_zpsf006315a.jpg

notdeadyet
21-02-2013, 08:07 AM
I doubt recreational divers needs come high up in the grown ups list of priorities for conserving stocks. We may take it all seriously, defining tech and rec differences but to the outside world, it's just another sporting activity that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Far more important needs for it than divers wanting to pull stuff of wrecks keeping a clear head ;)

I remember seeing a USGS document that listed commercial diving as something like 1% of global helium needs. Recreational diving would be a spot on the arse of that.

It's very sad that OC divers have so little regard for conservation :D

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 08:16 AM
Sorry cant help i didn't order them myself

but they are 300bar

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/20130221_085304_zpsf006315a.jpg

Thanks Mark. Going by Neil's list, it looks like those are no longer available in 50 litre sizes.

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 08:21 AM
Don't be boring Neil. If we fill our tins with balloon gas and welding gas then top up from a ropey old compressor, what could possibly go wrong... :)


Your right in one respect in that the Compressor is the week link in the chain.

I do the usuals stodart tests on my Bayer junior compressor and replace the filters every year, but I know its the problem area

I know many divers using welding o2 some of which have dived very very deep indeed (200m+) Helium is interesting as i tested some baloon grade He and it came out 100% He on my analox which i calibrated against a N4 fill of He. I have never used baloon gas as N4 is not that expensive when your diving a CCR and a J lasts three years.

I would order diving grade He and Diving grade 02 if it were not for the associated hassel with supply.

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 08:28 AM
Your right in one respect in that the Compressor is the week link in the chain.

I do the usuals stodart tests on my Bayer junior compressor and replace the filters every year, but I know its the problem area

I know many divers using welding o2 some of which have dived very very deep indeed (200m+) Helium is interesting as i tested some baloon grade He and it came out 100% He on my analox which i calibrated against a N4 fill of He. I have never used baloon gas as N4 is not that expensive when your diving a CCR and a J lasts three years.

I would order diving grade He and Diving grade 02 if it were not for the associated hassel with supply.

ATB

Mark

I can see the appeal with using alternatives to diving grade O2 and He. However, for me, for the relatively little price difference (and possible safety implications) for a CCR 3 litre fill, I see no reason to look at anything not certified for diving.

Ron MacRae
21-02-2013, 08:48 AM
As I was considering doing the BSAC Sports Mixed Gas course, or equivelent, I asked my LDS for a price for a Trimix 21/35 fill for a 300bar 2x12L twinset. Got a reply today of just over £100. :( Guess I won't bother with SMG until/unless I go to a CCR.

Graham Smith
21-02-2013, 08:53 AM
As I was considering doing the BSAC Sports Mixed Gas course, or equivelent, I asked my LDS for a price for a Trimix 21/35 fill for a 300bar 2x12L twinset. Got a reply today of just over £100. :( Guess I won't bother with SMG until/unless I go to a CCR.

Wow...That same fill with us would cost just £37.00

How far is Andover??? ;)

G

Simon TW
21-02-2013, 09:02 AM
I can't see why anyone would want to use non diving grade.

Would you want some non drinking grade water? It all comes from the same source.

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 09:11 AM
Don't be boring Neil. If we fill our tins with balloon gas and welding gas then top up from a ropey old compressor, what could possibly go wrong... :)

Don't be a fool, for one thing you would float off !

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 09:15 AM
I can see the appeal with using alternatives to diving grade O2 and He. However, for me, for the relatively little price difference (and possible safety implications) for a CCR 3 litre fill, I see no reason to look at anything not certified for diving.


Well for some strange reasion if you ask BOC for diving grade anything,they suddenly start to get all difuicult to deel with. Perhaps your a dive shop and dont suffer this but Id ask you to try getting two Js of 02 and two of HE delivered to 23 Acracia Avenue and see how you get on. In my experiance its not possable.

We were buying through a buisnes at a buisnes address on an industrial estate and we then collect from there.

Far easier to just avoid the word Diving when ordering like that

Cost wise we can get a 50 ltr 235 bar J of 99.99% grade 02 for £20.00 last year BOC did a deal where you baught one 02 and got two free if you collected.

ATB

Mark

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 09:25 AM
I can't see why anyone would want to use non diving grade.

Would you want some non drinking grade water? It all comes from the same source.




Thats not true is it


All water from the UK is drinking grade. The water we flush our toilets with is drinking grade.


So yes wed drink it and in fact of course we do.

People also purchase non drinking grade water all the time. A lot of bottled mineral water would not pass the UK tap water standards. Some carry warnings on them. I think it was Perrier or Volvic mineral water which carries the warning "Not suitable for pregnant women"



I often have to laugh when someone stands there smoking a fag and telling me my timber treatment chemicals are dangerous :D. The LD50 of Permetherin is 4500 and they are smoking shit with a LD50 of less than 100

Its a bit like that with bottled gas. The contaminants found in compressed air are far far more significant than the contaminants in bottled 02 or He. For me any supply of gas thats 99.99% pure or better, is good enough.

BUT I stress again that CCR uses so little gas id happily pay for Diving grade He and 02 if BOC wouldent make me jump through hoops to get the stuff.

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 09:39 AM
Well for some strange reasion if you ask BOC for diving grade anything,they suddenly start to get all difuicult to deel with. Perhaps your a dive shop and dont suffer this but Id ask you to try getting two Js of 02 and two of HE delivered to 23 Acracia Avenue and see how you get on. In my experiance its not possable.

We were buying through a buisnes at a buisnes address on an industrial estate and we then collect from there.

Far easier to just avoid the word Diving when ordering like that

Cost wise we can get a 50 ltr 235 bar J of 99.99% grade 02 for £20.00 last year BOC did a deal where you baught one 02 and got two free if you collected.

ATB

Mark

Horses for courses. Trying to buy non-diving grade He and O2 from BOC would be too much hassle for me in terms of those in the local distribution point that know me and those that use it. I'm lucky in that I have an approved place to store it.

That aside, be interesting to know an insurance companies view about paying out if they found out you'd dived using non-approved gas and had an accident. Pretty sure they'd dug their heels in for as long as possible whether or not the breathing gas quality was contributory.

Ron MacRae
21-02-2013, 10:18 AM
Wow...That same fill with us would cost just £37.00

How far is Andover??? ;)

G

Is that a shop or club?

If it's a shop are you getting a large volume discount?
I suspect my LDS doesn't have much call for Trimix.

Eastbourne is a bit far to go for a fill unfortunatly. Recon I'l pass on Trimix.

Ron.

Ron MacRae
21-02-2013, 10:18 AM
Duplicate.

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 10:30 AM
Me again,

We went through this at "the other place", when it was discovered

WOZ IS AN OXYGEN THIEF

rather than rely on internet "facts" I emailed BOC, Air Products & Linde asking the following.........
(these emails were sent to me and are mine to copy :middlefinger:)


Hi,
Sorry to take up your time but can you advise me, briefly, as to the difference between industrial oxygen and diving grade oxygen please. Is it just a more detailed process ?
Many thanks in advance.
Best regards

three of them were BOC, Linde Gas and Air Products and they said:

Air Products…….
…………As you say they go through different process checks. Breathing Air conforms to ISO 2046. Medical Oxygen is only allowed on prescription, and Industrial Oxygen is used for Manufacturing.
We have a portfolio with around 100 different pure products, and among these there are several purities for each product. Purity is commonly expressed as 5.5 where the first 5 represent the number of nines. The second digit represents the first digit following the number of nines, this gives in this example a purity 99.9995%. But often it may not just be a question of the purity that matters, but the degree of impurity that makes the real difference - two gases of nominally identical purity may not necessarily have the same effect.
To simplify this choice we are naming the products after the applications they are suited for.

Thanks
Tara Hopkins

BOC……..
…………Oxygen is the most important gas produced which is predominantly used in (oxy) welding, steel manufacturing plants, chemical processing and in water and sewage treatment. When purified, oxygen is used for medical applications.

Medical gases include high purity oxygen and anaesthetic gases such as cyclopropane and nitrous oxide. Medical oxygen is produced by BOC by the purification of industrial grade oxygen..
Some of the medical gases are blended and produced for special applications such as for underwater diving life support systems and special industrial welding mixtures

Linde Gas……..
To lazy to respond yet !!!!!

I bet there are loads of divers out there who have used welding / industrial grade O2 for diving and never had a problem, but knowing what goes on with "J"s, it's not for me ! :n:

I have some of the BOC 300 Bar He cylinders as well, but they were not supplied with diving grade He in them, just high purity He, and BOC put air in the ballon gas, I will get a photo up of the warning label when Matt gets five minutes spare !

BOC Ts & Cs are such that they will not deliver those gases to private addresses !

Andy Hayhurst
21-02-2013, 11:15 AM
I have had BOC 300 b diving grade helium in the past, when I rang the depot they always stocked some high pressure for me, if I rang the dedicated order line I only could get 200b. The 300b ones last time were in a light green body cylinder with a brown top and all stamped as diving grade 300b, the 200b were still all brown, so no idea what the deal was, best bit was depot charged same for either one....

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 11:38 AM
Ah, but your special Andy :D

Not like the other rif raf

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 11:38 AM
.....

Ian_6301
21-02-2013, 12:44 PM
SO, with all this faffing, if I had a tame dive shop that did tri-mix, how likely do you think that they would be to say "yes" to me jumping on their band wagon and acquiring O2 (or helium) through their account?

I only ask because at the moment I am getting a great price for Nitrox fills up to 100% and while the gas itself would be cheaper and more convenient if I did it myself (I do have that cert), the faff factor and the cost associated with getting hold of the stuff and then keeping it safe does seem somewhat disproportionate.

Ian_6301
21-02-2013, 12:44 PM
SO, with all this faffing, if I had a tame dive shop that did tri-mix, how likely do you think that they would be to say "yes" to me jumping on their band wagon and acquiring O2 (or helium) through their account?

I only ask because at the moment I am getting a great price for Nitrox fills up to 100% and while the gas itself would be cheaper and more convenient if I did it myself (I do have that cert), the faff factor and the cost associated with getting hold of the stuff and then keeping it safe does seem somewhat disproportionate.

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 01:03 PM
Horses for courses. Trying to buy non-diving grade He and O2 from BOC would be too much hassle for me in terms of those in the local distribution point that know me and those that use it. I'm lucky in that I have an approved place to store it.

That aside, be interesting to know an insurance companies view about paying out if they found out you'd dived using non-approved gas and had an accident. Pretty sure they'd dug their heels in for as long as possible whether or not the breathing gas quality was contributory.


Fortunatly in England we have the right to kill ourselves in an accidental way. Its very Brittish :D

ATB

Mark

Mark Chase
21-02-2013, 01:05 PM
SO, with all this faffing, if I had a tame dive shop that did tri-mix, how likely do you think that they would be to say "yes" to me jumping on their band wagon and acquiring O2 (or helium) through their account?

I only ask because at the moment I am getting a great price for Nitrox fills up to 100% and while the gas itself would be cheaper and more convenient if I did it myself (I do have that cert), the faff factor and the cost associated with getting hold of the stuff and then keeping it safe does seem somewhat disproportionate.



If i could get cheep 02 and trimix localy id sell all my blending kit in a heartbeet. But for me its over 100miles of driving and massive expense for a fill. So i home brew.

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 01:14 PM
Hi Ian,

I find its relative to what is know as the "sticky buns" factor.

The guys that use our kit don't take the piss, help out when needed, and understand that it's a place of work (:middlefinger:) Oh, and not to f**k about and break things, or I will set the dog on em.

It seems to work !

Here is the BOC label I mentioned, it might be in the safety data notes as well.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8093/8493845491_cdd3496e5b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92330724@N06/8493845491/)

and 300 bar He.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8493845477_904c2631ba.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92330724@N06/8493845477/)

Strangely, some might say spookily, I have just been reviewing my life insurance policy and it states that they will not payout for suicide in the first 12 months from inception.

So you do have the right to top yourself, it is a very British way, but you must queue up first, another British trait :giggle:

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 02:33 PM
Have spoken with our local depo and the BOC special gases dept. The only diving grade helium they supply is to 200 bar, so god knows how to get hold of any 300 bar ones.

Graham Smith
21-02-2013, 02:38 PM
Have spoken with our local depo and the BOC special gases dept. The only diving grade helium they supply is to 200 bar, so god knows how to get hold of any 300 bar ones.

I think you need to ask if they supply helium to 300 bar for any application and then what quality it is....

As said, some of the research stuff is purer than Diving grade and probably not much more (if at all) expensive, after all it all comes from the same source ;)

G

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 02:45 PM
I think you need to ask if they supply helium to 300 bar for any application and then what quality it is....

As said, some of the research stuff is purer than Diving grade and probably not much more (if at all) expensive, after all it all comes from the same source ;)

G

I questioned them specifically. The only 300 bar He supplied comes in a WZ size which I think is 16 cylinders palleted. Their answer was exactly the same as on Neil's list.

Graham Smith
21-02-2013, 02:52 PM
I questioned them specifically. The only 300 bar He supplied comes in a WZ size which I think is 16 cylinders palleted. Their answer was exactly the same as on Neil's list.

WZ Size? The ones known as "Quads" (4x4=16)? Damn, they're a right bitch to get in the back of the car.... ;)

G

Major Clanger
21-02-2013, 02:56 PM
0800 020 800 for anyone that wants to take up the challenge and get a product number for a mythical 300 bar 50 ltr tin of He, diving grade or any other feckin grade.

If we pester enough, they may add it to their product list...

Graham Smith
21-02-2013, 03:02 PM
....Or they'll see it as increased demand and whack the prices up....Again! ;)

G

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 03:25 PM
Noooooo

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 03:35 PM
For the Jockenese amougnst us there used to be an outfit in Aberdeen, Dominion gas I seem to remember, that were a fraction of the price of the bigger players like BOC and Airproducts, did 300 bar and were nice to deal with, just too far to make it economical for me but might be of use to some.

Quads are the way forwards for shops, if you have a fork lift, and somewhere secure to put it so that the local yoofs don't empty the f**king thing !

Most companies do a deal on rental if your in it for a long term, i.e. not just monthly rental. :clap: that helps with the cost. It's surprising how much a cascade system soon adds up, roughly a tenner per cylinder rental / month, 3 cylinders ?? almost £400 a year !

I dunno what was wrong with narcosis, never did me any harm :drunk:

Gary
21-02-2013, 04:14 PM
I dunno what was wrong with narcosis, never did me any harm :drunk:
You sure?!

Gary
21-02-2013, 04:15 PM
I dunno what was wrong with narcosis, never did me any harm :drunk:
You sure?! You can't even use a till correctly!

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 04:30 PM
Oi, oi, at least I can reach the till :giggle:

BTS
21-02-2013, 04:33 PM
Oi, oi, at least I can reach the till :giggle:

Are you saying he is too short or his arms aren't long enough? ;)

Gary
21-02-2013, 04:37 PM
Oi, oi, at least I can reach the till :giggle:

It woudn't matter, the my till is empty :D

Unlike those rich diveshop operators ;)

Paul H
21-02-2013, 04:47 PM
2p a litre from my LDS.... at the moment, but new season, new prices usually

nickb
21-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Are you saying he is too short or his arms aren't long enough? ;)They're too short to reach the bottom of his pockets, that's for sure.

Neil Brock
21-02-2013, 05:37 PM
Word is he has had them sewn up as they were of 'little' use, still with all the shit weather we have had! he will have had the benefit of getting it later than us, the rain has to fall that much further !

Jas kev
21-02-2013, 05:55 PM
bargain most in Plymouth 3p+, though have 2,75P as best at moment
2p a litre from my LDS.... at the moment, but new season, new prices usually

Jas kev
21-02-2013, 06:03 PM
When you see this sort of price compared to the home brew are we being taken for a ride by some of the LDS.
Seems a big mark up, I realise they have overheads but if the gas was more afforable and the LDS could do the training and the Dives as well surely that would increase business.
As I was considering doing the BSAC Sports Mixed Gas course, or equivelent, I asked my LDS for a price for a Trimix 21/35 fill for a 300bar 2x12L twinset. Got a reply today of just over £100. :( Guess I won't bother with SMG until/unless I go to a CCR.

Gary
21-02-2013, 06:29 PM
They're too short to reach the bottom of his pockets, that's for sure.

It wouldn't matter, theres nothing in them anyway

I am but a financially unstable skipper

Barrygoss
21-02-2013, 06:29 PM
We're getting a bargain then
O2 is 1p per L
He is 2p per L
(plus a fill cost)
air in dil cyclinders is currently free to members of the shops "club" (£5 a month) and he has banked 18/35 with booster so can fill in no time if that's your desired poison.
Air & Gas Fills - ☺Dive Northampton (http://www.divenorthampton.co.uk/air--gas-fills.html)

B

Gary
21-02-2013, 06:30 PM
the five second rule strikes again!

Gary
21-02-2013, 06:33 PM
We're getting a bargain then
O2 is 1p per L
He is 2p per L
(plus a fill cost)
air in dil cyclinders is currently free to members of the shops "club" (£5 a month) and he has banked 18/35 with booster so can fill in no time if that's your desired poison.
Air & Gas Fills - *Dive Northampton (http://www.divenorthampton.co.uk/air--gas-fills.html)

B
very good prices mate

Gary
21-02-2013, 06:33 PM
We're getting a bargain then
O2 is 1p per L
He is 2p per L
(plus a fill cost)
air in dil cyclinders is currently free to members of the shops "club" (£5 a month) and he has banked 18/35 with booster so can fill in no time if that's your desired poison.
Air & Gas Fills - *Dive Northampton (http://www.divenorthampton.co.uk/air--gas-fills.html)very good prices mate

B

Mark Chase
22-02-2013, 01:54 AM
very good prices mate


Very good indeed. That makes an 18/45 fill somewhere arround £60. I was paying over £80 for twin 12s of 18/45 nine years ago.

At the point i quit OC in 2004 I was paying £150 just in gas to do a 45min 70m dive on twin 15s and two 10ltr deco stages

ATB

Mark

Neil Brock
22-02-2013, 09:14 AM
Those are good prices. I know the raw costs and overheads and I charge more !
1p L pure O2
2.4p L for He

But its strange that no one spots that He is not twice the price of O2 ??? (or O2 half the price of He !)

Ian_6301
22-02-2013, 10:47 AM
The club are charging 2.5p for He and 1p for O2, are breaking even, but are paying for it the expensive way at the minute, with a monthly rental, plus paying for the fill, plus an exchange charge every time they swap and empty one for a full one... And that's even with someone from the club picking it up in a van!

Jas kev
22-02-2013, 04:59 PM
So whats the general stance on refills , do you only pay for the top up.
If so a second set of twins could be on the way.

Barrygoss
22-02-2013, 05:01 PM
So whats the general stance on refills , do you only pay for the top up.
If so a second set of twins could be on the way.

Yep, because he has a booster you only pay for the gas used in the fill.
(It helps we spend a fortune in there as well )

B