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Johanohl
16-02-2018, 12:45 PM
Hi buddies!
I want to share some tips on packing the dive bag for liveaboard diving, I hope it will help some of you :-) Enjoy the video. https://youtu.be/-P9wom7UM54

Jen - Winged Blob
16-02-2018, 03:30 PM
Or perhaps NOT deflate the BCD fully by sucking the air out!! :(

jturner
16-02-2018, 03:43 PM
Or perhaps NOT deflate the BCD fully by sucking the air out!! :(

I might give that a miss too! Yikes!

Ian_6301
17-02-2018, 06:40 PM
Is there any actual evidence of the types of nasties (presumably moulds / bacteria) that might cause a human to get ill living inside BCDs?

Has anyone actually done some science?

A quick Google reveals that it is mostly PADI who advise that BCDs are dirty. The cite the potential for viruses to live in them.

Viruses do not survive for long outside the human body. Even the flu virus cannot survive for more than 24 hrs.

On that basis, I'm tempted to question the scientific rigour supporting the rest of the claim.

I mean, sure, if you own a chain of sweat shop sausage machine dive outfits somewhere warm, where clients wear a BCD for an hour, then it passes to the next user then absolutely! I would be dunking those things in trigene or similar and burning them at the end of the season, particularly if you encourage the clients to orally inflate.

But for a UK diver who has their own kit, barely ever oral inflates and rinses their kit off after trips, then I really don't think we're talking about the same level of exposure to risk.

Discuss...

Timw
17-02-2018, 08:50 PM
Aspergillus fumigatus... look up Mike Firth.

Sausage machine dive outfits are probably safer - the kit is in constant use, not left festering and wet for weeks between dives.

Trigene and other disinfectants generally need to be at concentrations of 1% or higher and require 15-30 minutes contact time. You get through a lot of Trigene to dunk a bc properly ( inside & out).

There are plenty of other bacterial spore formers that will survive and can be pathogenic in the right conditions.

I wouldn't breathe off my wing and am scrupulous about sanitizing my breathing loop. Aspergillus infections are low probability but very high consequence.

Eddie Clamp
17-02-2018, 08:58 PM
Whoever attempted us to inflate and breathe air from an ABLJ all those years ago?

Remember visiting Argeles sur Mer in the 70's and a Moniteur there wouldn't let me dive with the crack bottle in my ABLJ as he had been informed by an instructor that anyone who did not have the stamp in their log shouldn't be allowed :OMG:

Timw
17-02-2018, 09:22 PM
We didn't know any better then did we??

Ian_6301
17-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Aspergillus fumigatus... look up Mike Firth.

Sausage machine dive outfits are probably safer - the kit is in constant use, not left festering and wet for weeks between dives.

Trigene and other disinfectants generally need to be at concentrations of 1% or higher and require 15-30 minutes contact time. You get through a lot of Trigene to dunk a bc properly ( inside & out).

There are plenty of other bacterial spore formers that will survive and can be pathogenic in the right conditions.

I wouldn't breathe off my wing and am scrupulous about sanitizing my breathing loop. Aspergillus infections are low probability but very high consequence.

... And our survey says...

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Aspergillosis/

Or in other words, nigh on impossible to catch unless you have underlying chest problems (in which case you should not be diving) or are immuno compromised.

I'm very happy to be proved wrong using actual science and proper references, mind.

ebt
18-02-2018, 08:11 AM
In reality you can get the air out of a wing/bcd by rolling it up whilst holding the dump valve. No need to take any risk.

Mark Chase
18-02-2018, 09:17 AM
Was it just me who used to fill his BCD with warm slightly soapy water and rinse out with fresh before packing away.

I always seamd to get some sea water slopping about in the bottom after a dive and felt letting all that salt crystallise inside the wing wasn't such a good idea.

Turbanator
18-02-2018, 09:35 AM
When I first borrowed the shop inspo, it had been stored upright with the inflator down and probably half a cup of seawater above and in the Auto Air for a year. Bye bye Auto Air.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Timw
18-02-2018, 09:42 AM
... And our survey says...

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Aspergillosis/

Or in other words, nigh on impossible to catch unless you have underlying chest problems (in which case you should not be diving) or are immuno compromised.

I'm very happy to be proved wrong using actual science and proper references, mind.

That's just an example... and as I said, low probability but high consequence.

There are plenty of other pathogens that will survive or thrive in the same conditions - a squirt of buddy clean or a few ml of trigene in the 4-5 L of water needed and a few minutes contact time is pointless - it won't do anything useful.

I can't really influence the consequence but I can influence the likelihood - it's a bit of basic risk management.

Darren A
18-02-2018, 09:50 AM
There was a thread on here, or it may even have been YD, I think posted by someone's sister who ended up in intensive care (and may even have died) as a result of a lung infection caught by breathing from a bcd.

Edit - link is in first few posts in this thread

Sucking Down a BCD or Wing https://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?t=21224

Paulo
18-02-2018, 09:51 AM
For my counterlungs I rinse the lungs, make up a 500ml bottle of Virkon-S and pour half into each CL and then fill with water and leave set for 20-30mins. Drain and rinse with fresh water and dry as best as possible

Does it kill everything? Who knows

Tim Digger
20-02-2018, 11:25 AM
For my counterlungs I rinse the lungs, make up a 500ml bottle of Virkon-S and pour half into each CL and then fill with water and leave set for 20-30mins. Drain and rinse with fresh water and dry as best as possible

Does it kill everything? Who knows

Almost certainly not. But it certainly kills a lot and is very useful risk reduction. There is a lot of work that has been done on disinfection and sterilization. There is a difference, all chemical liquid use in normal concentrations is disinfection, ie vegetative reproducing bugs and viruses are killed WHERE IT COMES INTO CONTACT. Spores and fungi may not be. Sterilization is the death of all living reproducing organisms and will be permanent if properly sealed in a container. Admittedly some infective agents such as CJD will escape death by previously reliable methods. A lot of work was done on methods to adequately clean and disinfect endoscopes, the materials and nooks and crannies are not unlike those in a BCD or RB loop. They cannot be sterilised as the necessary treatments will destroy the device. It was determined that proper cleaning and the removal of biofilm and proteinaceous matter is vital to the success of disinfection. Plus disinfection after and again before use. This is a counsel of perfection that few divers will attain but is certainly what should be done if one was to persist with the out dated training of breathing from a BCD and why most agencies have abandoned it. I do after a trip remove the front cover of my second stage and thoroughly wash the diapham. I believe all divers should be taught to do this (and correctly replace) the diaphragm is a classic spot where biofilm of organisms will form and when dried out crack off in more than significant amounts and potentially be inhaled. Finally although the risks of clinical Aspergillosis are significantly greater in those with chest problems or immunocompromised they do exist even for those with good lungs. Mike Firths sad demise should be a warning to all.