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Spinal
14-08-2017, 10:32 AM
A query - I live in Switzerland, but teach (as a hobby) also in the UK and Italy.

My medical is due for renewal, and was tempted to just do it here (or in Italy). Is the same medical valid in the other countries? Or do I need a HSE specific one for when I'm in the UK?

M.

Chrisch
14-08-2017, 11:02 AM
HSE is just for work (paid employment). As far as I know a sport diver medical is acceptable throughout (geographic) Europe.

Edward3c
14-08-2017, 11:27 AM
It depends on which agency youíre going to teach.

If PADI, GUE et al. Yes, you need a HSE medical and follow the Diving At Work Regulations.

If BSAC, SAA or SSAC (or your national equivalent) and teaching as part of the club for no reward then itís what your insurer requires. There is no legislation that requires a recreation diver to have a medical in the UK.

smileydiver
14-08-2017, 11:43 AM
As above, re if teaching or not. If you were diving with a PADI club and answer yes to any of the questions on the self declaration / liability form you'd need a fit to dive sign off from the doctor but not a full HSE medical if not working.

Chrisch
14-08-2017, 11:50 AM
... If you were diving with a PADI club and answer yes to any of the questions on the self declaration / liability form you'd need a fit to dive sign off from the doctor but not a full HSE medical if not working.

What is a PADI club? I wasn't aware that PADI had a club structure at all?

Edward3c
14-08-2017, 12:00 PM
As above, re if teaching or not. If you were diving with a PADI club and answer yes to any of the questions on the self declaration / liability form you'd need a fit to dive sign off from the doctor but not a full HSE medical if not working.

By the very nature of PADI's structure a PADI instructor will always fall under the Diving At Work Regulations when teaching.

smileydiver
14-08-2017, 12:02 PM
What is a PADI club? I wasn't aware that PADI had a club structure at all?

Well I am in one! In our case there is a dive centre that offers courses and a 'club' which does trips and socials. You don't pay to join the club, you pay for activities you want to take part in. I know several others who do the same sort of thing, some have a nominal joining fee. But on any trip or dive day, people diving with the club need to complete the liability forms and they are all kept for HSE purposes also.

smileydiver
14-08-2017, 12:07 PM
By the very nature of PADI's structure a PADI instructor will always fall under the Diving At Work Regulations when teaching.

Correct, but even if not teaching and not at work (so no HSE medical required) a fit to dive note might be required to cover any qs answered yes.

Chrisch
14-08-2017, 01:17 PM
Well I am in one! In our case there is a dive centre that offers courses and a 'club' which does trips and socials. You don't pay to join the club, you pay for activities you want to take part in. I know several others who do the same sort of thing, some have a nominal joining fee. But on any trip or dive day, people diving with the club need to complete the liability forms and they are all kept for HSE purposes also.

Is that not the shop club though? I was in a shop club and it wasn't affiliated to or connected with PADI in any way. I didn't think PADI had such affiliation and was/am interested to know if this has changed.

smileydiver
14-08-2017, 01:24 PM
Is that not the shop club though? I was in a shop club and it wasn't affiliated to or connected with PADI in any way. I didn't think PADI had such affiliation and was/am interested to know if this has changed.

Ah, I see what you mean now. No, no, this is just a club in the sense that people get together and do things but no official PADI affiliation. You are correct though that the dive centre is linked to PADI as a training facility. For all our trips, whether training or not we are all asked to sign the liability and self cert forms though. So, if someone came along to join us on a trip or diving day, they would need to show cert card and any necessary paperwork for any yes answers. Anyone can join the trips, they don't have to be PADI trained. I was meaning PADI club as in the dive centre is PADI affiliated not a direct link. Apologies for any confusion. A PADI dive centre linked club might be a better way to put it :)

Chrisch
14-08-2017, 01:42 PM
... Apologies for any confusion. ...

No worries. The idea has been mooted before and I thought I might have missed the change.

bubbleless
14-08-2017, 04:20 PM
Some clubs use independent instructors to train their members....

Paulo
14-08-2017, 04:29 PM
By the very nature of PADI's structure a PADI instructor will always fall under the Diving At Work Regulations when teaching.

Even if working for free?

drysuitdiver
14-08-2017, 04:39 PM
Even if working for free?

Yes.


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Paulo
14-08-2017, 04:51 PM
Yes.


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Just as well its just a UK thing! The lobby groups were quite effective when that one was brought it

scuba
14-08-2017, 07:07 PM
By the very nature of PADI's structure a PADI instructor will always fall under the Diving At Work Regulations when teaching.

So does it not follow that a PADI instructor teaching together with all UK dive centres hiring tanks will need their cylinders tested every year? Woz keeps saying they will fall under the recreational exemption but how do they if they fall under the Diving At Work Regulations. It's not that I think he doesn't know what he's talking about.


Ok it is........he does have form :grin:

Spinal
15-08-2017, 12:53 PM
Thanks for all the responses.

So this is what I'm doing:
- standard fit to dive medical, as needed in Switzerland to teach (50 euros, done in Germany just over the border)
- will then pop by Mark Down's house for a HSE medical if I teach in the UK

On thing - PADI does have a club structure whereby clubs can affiliate themselves. My CD walked me through it on the OWSI. I was shocked, and challenged that I had never seen a club, but was told it's not used very often... and in many countries not at all... but it does exist...
M.

smileydiver
15-08-2017, 02:00 PM
Mark Downs does my HSE medicals, I much prefer going to his house than a hospital!

Edward3c
15-08-2017, 02:03 PM
Thanks for all the responses.

So this is what I'm doing:
- standard fit to dive medical, as needed in Switzerland to teach (50 euros, done in Germany just over the border)
- will then pop by Mark Down's house for a HSE medical if I teach in the UK

On thing - PADI does have a club structure whereby clubs can affiliate themselves. My CD walked me through it on the OWSI. I was shocked, and challenged that I had never seen a club, but was told it's not used very often... and in many countries not at all... but it does exist...
M.

In the UK if the 'club' is controlled in any way by the PADI dive school, it will not be a true member's club under UK legislation and will fall under the DWR.

Chrisch
15-08-2017, 02:54 PM
...
On thing - PADI does have a club structure whereby clubs can affiliate themselves. My CD walked me through it on the OWSI. I was shocked, and challenged that I had never seen a club, but was told it's not used very often... and in many countries not at all... but it does exist...
M.

thanks for that clarification I have never come across it either perhaps because as Ed says...


In the UK if the 'club' is controlled in any way by the PADI dive school, it will not be a true member's club under UK legislation and will fall under the DWR.

Although I cannot see how the affiliation makes any odds if I am honest. PADI has a non profit side to it (Project AWARE for example). I guess the devil is in the detail. So long as there is no in-club training for profit I would have thought it was OK. The "club" could negotiate a discount with the "shop" and keep the two separate.

I look forward to finding one some day and seeing how it works.

Spinal
15-08-2017, 04:07 PM
To be honest, I have only seen one PADI club... ever. A google for padi clubs doesn't really turn up much.

The one club I was a member of caused quite some upset in the UK, as they charged £100 a year - and then all PADI training, from OW to DM, was free. You just paid for the crewpack/pic/air/entry fee. Not sure if they still operate as a club or as a shop/school now.

M.