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Baron015
02-04-2016, 02:57 PM
Am replacing my rebreather onboard gas contents gauges which are on longish HP hoses with button gauges directly on the 1st stages.

Are there any good/superior manufacturers of reliable button gauges out there ? Any recommendations ?


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SoggyBottoms
02-04-2016, 03:00 PM
I have these on my JJ. they seem ok

http://www.apdiving.com/shop/miniature-pressure-gauge.html

matt
02-04-2016, 07:22 PM
I'm also with the AP ones. They last me about 5 years before I replace them.

Matt.

Baron015
02-04-2016, 07:49 PM
Thanks, ordered

Paulo
02-04-2016, 07:52 PM
Whats the benefit? You cant see your gauges during the dive. Is that not handy for diagnosing problems?

Baron015
02-04-2016, 08:00 PM
Whats the benefit? You cant see your gauges during the dive. Is that not handy for diagnosing problems?

Yes. Benefits are debatable. Do as I say, not as I do. Leave yours on.

Doomanic
02-04-2016, 08:20 PM
So what are the benefits?

Paulo
02-04-2016, 08:23 PM
So what are the benefits?

The only 1 I can think of is less clutter but on my Classic they are probably the most streamlined part of it

Paulo
02-04-2016, 08:25 PM
The only 1 I can think of is less clutter but on my Classic they are probably the most streamlined part of it

Although less gas in the HP side if you are fluttering the o2 in the event of a stuck open solenoid

Capt Morgan
02-04-2016, 08:54 PM
So what are the benefits?

To cut down on the "danGerlies" :)

bottle maker
02-04-2016, 09:03 PM
Leave the hoses long with proper gauges on. Rather than run them down the front of the lungs have them going behind you, use a snoopy loop to keep them back behind you. If you need to see them you can pull them forward .

Graham.

Major Clanger
02-04-2016, 09:23 PM
Leave the hoses long with proper gauges on. Rather than run them down the front of the lungs have them going behind you, use a snoopy loop to keep them back behind you. If you need to see them you can pull them forward .

Graham.

He dives a JJ

Paulo
02-04-2016, 09:28 PM
He dives a JJ

Bloody hipsters

Major Clanger
02-04-2016, 09:31 PM
I'm tempted to do the same. Hoses behind me already but want to further reduce potential failure points.







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Paulo
02-04-2016, 09:59 PM
I'm tempted to do the same. Hoses behind me already but want to further reduce potential failure points.







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Bloody wanna be hipsters :D

Rob Dobson
02-04-2016, 10:45 PM
I put button gauges on my JJ when I was diving it with 3's. When I switched to 7's I switched back to HP hoses and regular gauges as the DIL and o2 now formed a significant portion of my OC bailout.

When I switched back to 3's I stayed with the regular gauges. Pros and cons to both but generally more information tends to be a good thing and clutter can usually be controlled with smarter hose routing.

cathal
02-04-2016, 10:55 PM
I believe eliminating potential failure points is the idea behind this i.e one less HP hose, swivel joint, pressure gauge etc. In theory I agree but not sure I'm a fan in practice.

BTS
03-04-2016, 06:54 AM
I did this... I was subsequently hit with an over whelming urge to check my gauges while on a dive, not something \I used to do much on the box... I had to swap them back so I could relax and enjoy the dive, funny thing psychology....

matt
03-04-2016, 07:14 AM
I did this... I was subsequently hit with an over whelming urge to check my gauges while on a dive, not something \I used to do much on the box... I had to swap them back so I could relax and enjoy the dive, funny thing psychology....

I kept mine, I use the buttons on a couple of off-boards. There's 2 times I can think I really used them - once (actually one week) when the solenoid stuck closed. Very useful to be able to close the cylinder and confirm the O2 isn't dropping and then push the button and confirm the O2 is on and full and working. And the time I ran out of O2 on the 6m stop with about 30 mins of 120 to go. It was nice that that was not a surprise.

Also in Coron where 90 bar O2 a day was the norm and ending the dive with 10 bar O2, it was useful then.

Matt.

Major Clanger
03-04-2016, 10:24 AM
Apart from reading a specific pressure, I'm finding it hard to think of something standard gauges give me, that I couldn't achieve another way with buttons.

matt
03-04-2016, 11:28 AM
Apart from reading a specific pressure, I'm finding it hard to think of something standard gauges give me, that I couldn't achieve another way with buttons.

How will you know you're going to run out of O2 before you run out?

Major Clanger
03-04-2016, 11:35 AM
How will you know you're going to run out of O2 before you run out?

Plan the right pressures to start the dive and I won't need to worry. Haven't checked a gauge underwater in 4 years. In a no fault situation I've never used more than 50 bar. For deep stuff I take a spare jug of o2 with a mav connector.

dwhitlow
03-04-2016, 12:35 PM
Apart from reading a specific pressure, I'm finding it hard to think of something standard gauges give me, that I couldn't achieve another way with buttons.
Okay, I can help there.

I have button gauges on my suit inflation cylinder and second 3l of oxygen. On my primary cylinders I have standard gauges bundled with the hoses for the MAV, so easily accessible on the surface, or in a dive. To check the buttons can be a pain when the boat is moving and the kit fastened in place.

I really don't fancy jumping off the boat with either diluent or oxygen turned off, or empty. Things can leak, things can be leaned against and unintentionally purged or be inflated and I can forget things.

I check gas pressure and contents before I load the car and I turn the gas off (usually). I often have spare cylinders in the car in case of loss of gas in transit in case I didn't turn them off and something moved and gas leaked.

I transport my kit and get it in place on the boat. I check the pressure and turn the gas off. After all, someone might sit down and purge my OCB, of press the wing inflater. Before I get into my kit, I check the pressure as a drop will indicate a leak and have purged my OCB whilst getting into my kit and lost some gas. It was easy to check my gas loss and assess how this changed my risk position.

When I've got into all my kit, and started breathing off the unit, I check my gas pressure to reassure myself they are turned on and I have enough gas.

Whilst I appreciate others feel differently, each of these is made simpler by having easily accessible gauges at the front.

matt
03-04-2016, 01:22 PM
Plan the right pressures to start the dive and I won't need to worry. Haven't checked a gauge underwater in 4 years. In a no fault situation I've never used more than 50 bar. For deep stuff I take a spare jug of o2 with a mav connector.

I do the same, Major. But shit happens and one time I needed to use the spare jug I was grateful to know I had 40 bar left in the in-board keeping the solenoid as a parachute. YMMV.

Major Clanger
03-04-2016, 01:28 PM
Okay, I can help there.

I have button gauges on my suit inflation cylinder and second 3l of oxygen. On my primary cylinders I have standard gauges bundled with the hoses for the MAV, so easily accessible on the surface, or in a dive. To check the buttons can be a pain when the boat is moving and the kit fastened in place.

I really don't fancy jumping off the boat with either diluent or oxygen turned off, or empty. Things can leak, things can be leaned against and unintentionally purged or be inflated and I can forget things.

I check gas pressure and contents before I load the car and I turn the gas off (usually). I often have spare cylinders in the car in case of loss of gas in transit in case I didn't turn them off and something moved and gas leaked.

I transport my kit and get it in place on the boat. I check the pressure and turn the gas off. After all, someone might sit down and purge my OCB, of press the wing inflater. Before I get into my kit, I check the pressure as a drop will indicate a leak and have purged my OCB whilst getting into my kit and lost some gas. It was easy to check my gas loss and assess how this changed my risk position.

When I've got into all my kit, and started breathing off the unit, I check my gas pressure to reassure myself they are turned on and I have enough gas.

Whilst I appreciate others feel differently, each of these is made simpler by having easily accessible gauges at the front.

I too can help with that.

Having done leak checks, the last thing I do before donning the RB is to make sure the valves are on and then squirt in a blast of gas once donned, having once nearly gone in with the O2 off.

Major Clanger
03-04-2016, 01:36 PM
I do the same, Major. But shit happens and one time I needed to use the spare jug I was grateful to know I had 40 bar left in the in-board keeping the solenoid as a parachute. YMMV.

I ultimately have the bov as my parachute but it needs to have been a bad day and a series of equipment failures before I call on it.

Each to their own, for me, with bmcls on the meg, buttons would work.

notdeadyet
03-04-2016, 06:52 PM
I don't tend to use gauges except when I'm cave diving, then I only put one on dil as that's what you're more likely to burn through underground. I accept there are times that having gauges may help you diagnose which side a leak is coming from but equally the gauge, hose and various HP o-rings are as likely to be what's failed as anything else. If you've got a BOV, bailout and suit gas then descending with one side (or both sides) empty or switched off is not the end of the world. Like Gary, one of my final checks is checking the valves. In fact, when I dived a KISS I almost always descended with the oxygen switched off (I had a suicide valve on the MAV). If I get bored on a dive I'll switch one side off and commit to doing the rest of it that way and occasionally do training dives with all the onboard switched off.

Maybe I'm just spoilt by the shitty button gauges that Apeks sold in the 90's but I have a real distrust of them. Wasn't there a famous fire on a boat where one let loose on someone's O2? I don't mind using proper SPG's, I don't mind using no SPG's. Button gauges seem a bit of a compromise that doesn't really have any of the advantages of either. A bit like the hCCR fad was.

gobfish1
03-04-2016, 07:53 PM
in board i like the gauges, off board o2 and 50% suite feed are button gauges , bailout have gauges ,

on board i tend to piss some gas away venting loop at depth/ dill , also like to do a few flush,s at 6m with the o2 , so like to see my gas numbers , also like to know gas lines are good,

like to keep tabs on gas use , as i may need to do a few dives on the 3l,s and may need to NOT piss as much gas away .

plus having feed back on gas helps me work out several things that could feek me up , :nod:

op
AP button gauges seem to take a kicking and keep on ticking , tho in getting to the point that Braille gauges would work better than button s do , lol

jturner
04-04-2016, 08:20 AM
Slight aside, but I had to use some stages abroad with button gauges on and presumably the batch was faulty. I was minding my own business swimming along at about 25-30m and the plastic front of the gauge blew off, missed my face by a fraction and was last seen dropping to the depths. I nearly shat myself. A second one burst on the boat, shooting past someone's shoulder and into the sea. The idea of either of the above happening on my rebreather and behind me so I could work out what was going on is not appealing.
At that point I decided button gauges were too fragile and unreliable for anything... Not seen nor heard of a "proper" gauge failing yet, especially one protected by a little boot and that's despite my AP O2 gauge being so old and grotty it actually had what looked like a concretion on it.

iain/hsm
04-04-2016, 10:11 AM
Am replacing my rebreather onboard gas contents gauges which are on longish HP hoses with button gauges directly on the 1st stages.

Are there any good/superior manufacturers of reliable button gauges out there ? Any recommendations ?

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By manufacturer I have assume you ment the actual manufacturers. There are two good ones;
One is described below and supplies most of the major scuba brands, the other makes only for the military (so far) both are UK manufactured

If you ever end up in the jewellery quarter of Birmingham there is a gem of a manufacturer called the Miniature Pressure Gauge Company
They make the standard brass 23mm high pressure indicator for most of the brand names, Apeks AP, Aqualung etc etc etc
And if you want say the TDF name on it you need order only 250

http://www.miniaturepressuregauge.com/23mm-high-pressure-indicators/


(The rest of the scuba market go to Tiawan and buy some junk copy but thankfully these are easily distinguishable. )


The other is a military product that is more of a tactile pressure indicator (I guess for diving in swamps, ditches and polluted rivers )
I can fully describe it if of general interest but it's not available to joe public. The tactile button lets the diver know pressure in cylinder in poor conditions, there are a number of variants.

Picture enclosed shows the Birmingham Miniature gauge next to one of the HSM military indicators

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/iainhsm/HSM-BOC%20033_zpsmzpw0jdo.jpg[/URL]

Timw
04-04-2016, 11:12 AM
By manufacturer I have assume you ment the actual manufacturers. There are two good ones;
One is described below and supplies most of the major scuba brands, the other makes only for the military (so far) both are UK manufactured

If you ever end up in the jewellery quarter of Birmingham there is a gem of a manufacturer called the Miniature Pressure Gauge Company
They make the standard brass 23mm high pressure indicator for most of the brand names, Apeks AP, Aqualung etc etc etc
And if you want say the TDF name on it you need order only 250

http://www.miniaturepressuregauge.com/23mm-high-pressure-indicators/


(The rest of the scuba market go to Tiawan and buy some junk copy but thankfully these are easily distinguishable. )


The other is a military product that is more of a tactile pressure indicator (I guess for diving in swamps, ditches and polluted rivers )
I can fully describe it if of general interest but it's not available to joe public. The tactile button lets the diver know pressure in cylinder in poor conditions, there are a number of variants.

Picture enclosed shows the Birmingham Miniature gauge next to one of the HSM military indicators

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww310/iainhsm/HSM-BOC%20033_zpsmzpw0jdo.jpg[/URL]

Nice. Pop up button when it drops to a set pressure?

I've seen several of the cheapy button gauges fail over the years - shooting the plastic face across the deck if knocked. I have a button on my spare O2 and standard gauges on my in- board and bail out. If I really need to see what's in my tins during a dive, I want something I can actually read with my aging eyes!

matt
04-04-2016, 11:20 AM
Nice. Pop up button when it drops to a set pressure?

I've seen several of the cheapy button gauges fail over the years - shooting the plastic face across the deck if knocked. I have a button on my spare O2 and standard gauges on my in- board and bail out. If I really need to see what's in my tins during a dive, I want something I can actually read with my aging eyes!

I've used APD ones for 14 years and they do fail, but only because they are clogged with rubbish. I've not had one pop, but Bob posted one [make unknown to me] on FB last week that failed (I haven't copied it here as it has a (C) on it). I treat them as a 5 year service item.

Matt.

ColinIOM
04-04-2016, 10:57 PM
Whats the benefit? You cant see your gauges during the dive. Is that not handy for diagnosing problems?

Not sure I'd want them to see how much breathing gas available but I do have one for the suit inflation, mainly to show me whether the cylinder is full, half full or empty before diving.

Mark Chase
05-04-2016, 06:59 AM
I have never understood the issue? I just put shorter hoses on my JJ and put the gauges through the D rings. I never notice they are there till I need to read one.


I often run two 3-4 hour dives on one 3ltr tin when traveleing so its very usefull to know how much gas I have left.

If I have had an issue down there and need to do multiple dill flushes Id like to know how much dill I have left.

If I am on deco then before I do triple 02 flushes I check my gauge

Also had a hose failure years ago and frankly had no idea what cylinder I lost all the gas from so was pleased to be able to check my gauges.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/DSC_7923_zpsepsqvezk.jpg

Major Clanger
05-04-2016, 10:58 AM
Also had a hose failure years ago and frankly had no idea what cylinder I lost all the gas from so was pleased to be able to check my gauges.



I can help with that as well :)

Bungee'd mirror on my arm very useful underwater for:

a. checking my awesomeness (by now you'd think I was used to it)
b. easier visual fault identification (very handy when I had a recent lung hose split and resultant slow loss of gas that wasn't apparent on the surface)

gobfish1
05-04-2016, 12:11 PM
I can help with that as well :)

Bungee'd mirror on my arm very useful underwater for:

a. checking my awesomeness (by now you'd think I was used to it)
b. easier visual fault identification (very handy when I had a recent lung hose split and resultant slow loss of gas that wasn't apparent on the surface)

lol my m8 used to have a mirror for looking at him self in water and out , i had a big hair brush with a carabina fixed to it , had it in my stab jacket for half a year be4 i got the chance to send it down his dsmb ,
we never did see much of his mirror after that well not top side ,

Major Clanger
05-04-2016, 12:16 PM
lol my m8 used to have a mirror for looking at him self in water and out , i had a big hair brush with a carabina fixed to it , had it in my stab jacket for half a year be4 i got the chance to send it down his dsmb ,
we never did see much of his mirror after that well not top side ,

Brilliant rofl

Paul Evans
06-04-2016, 10:44 AM
lol my m8 used to have a mirror for looking at him self in water and out , i had a big hair brush with a carabina fixed to it , had it in my stab jacket for half a year be4 i got the chance to send it down his dsmb ,
we never did see much of his mirror after that well not top side ,

Ada? B-)

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jamesp
06-04-2016, 10:53 AM
Ada? B-)

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First time I met Ada, He sent his sledgehammer down with the shot.

Spent half the dive listening to "bong, bong,bong" underwater and the rest watching 1/3 third of a dir team trying to fight Gobbers for his bail out gas.

That was my introduction to South coast mixed gas wreck diving.

:-)

Paul Evans
06-04-2016, 11:00 AM
First time I met Ada, He sent his sledgehammer down with the shot.

Spent half the dive listening to "bong, bong,bong" underwater and the rest watching 1/3 third of a dir team trying to fight Gobbers for his bail out gas.

That was my introduction to South coast mixed gas wreck diving.

:-)

Well he certainly has the hair for gobbers to comb B-)

Can you imagine gobbers giving gas to the glitterati, B-) did he use Ada,s hammer 🔨 :-D

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Capt Morgan
06-04-2016, 11:08 AM
Did Ada hang up his fins ?

Paul Evans
06-04-2016, 11:17 AM
Did Ada hang up his fins ?

Not sure, I miss him round here, and Mr Green. :-( but I do know we have business ventures in common, although it fooking amazes me how anyone north of Watford ca afford it :-D :-P

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Capt Morgan
06-04-2016, 11:19 AM
His words of wisdom were priceless :)

Paul Evans
06-04-2016, 11:22 AM
His words of wisdom were priceless :)

Sick of cnuts B-)

Fook me he'd have been on top form around here lately...

That's RG I'm talking about ;-)

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matt
06-04-2016, 12:11 PM
Is this the same Richard Green we're talking about gobber?

gobfish1
06-04-2016, 12:18 PM
First time I met Ada, He sent his sledgehammer down with the shot.

Spent half the dive listening to "bong, bong,bong" underwater and the rest watching 1/3 third of a dir team trying to fight Gobbers for his bail out gas.

That was my introduction to South coast mixed gas wreck diving.

:-)

must be 10 years ago ,
1/3 third of a dir team trying to fight Gobbers for his bail out gas.
To be fair i told HP he could have my dill cylinder / back up and use it as back gas so he / we could do a bit more time on the wreck ,

problem was id got my self stuck inside the wreck in a v small space and id run out of dill due to some c^nt in a dive shop putting my new ADV on wrong . / o rind on the wrong side of the bange ,

Having ran out of inboard dill id stuck my bailout / dill whip on the mav,
Then got my arse out of de v small place id been stuck in, leaving my swag bag behind (o the shame of it ),
Id just got my flutter valve under controle, when my buddy HP turns up out of the blue and mugs me for the gas id said he could have/use . Problem was its now fixed to my breather / mav , I didnt need it once out of the wreck , and HP could have used it , He had gas in his twinset so rather than having a cluster fook, he just said fook it lets go up and up we went , him looking all fab and me draging my arse up my dsmb , good day out with a good set of lads ,


The brush was some other diver that had lots of hair like ada, but better looking and slimer lol, the fat guy was more fun tho ,