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View Full Version : EU / in, out shake it all about?



Finless
22-02-2016, 06:31 PM
Just to get a 'a feel' for how it goes at the moment amongst divers who, as the world will know, are highly intelligent, debonair and stylish and may be relied upon to debate with passion but not nastiness!

Choose IN or OUT based on your current opinion and then whether you consider yourself open to a change of opinion or not. I haven't added a 'don't know' as you types will have to choose and have the 'open to change' option.

There is no need for spiteful or nasty name calling for 'generic groups' that you don't agree with. This is to be an adult debate with no need for name calling like those bastards who consider their opinion to be right! you know who you are, you bunch of 'kin tossers'?

Only joking.

Hot Totty
22-02-2016, 06:35 PM
eh ,there's another poll already up - wake up :D

Finless
22-02-2016, 06:37 PM
Oh FFS! Is there? Where? I never saw it!

Oh well. Would somebody please delete this post/poll.

Finless
22-02-2016, 06:38 PM
I still can't see this 'other poll'? And I cleaned my glasses.

Finless
22-02-2016, 06:38 PM
Aha! Found it. The pesky little blighter!

Darren A
22-02-2016, 06:39 PM
Oh good lord. Not only is it all over TV, its all over TDF now.

Please ban the next person who opens an EU in/out thread/pole :)

Actually, ban the person who opened this one pleae :)

Finless
23-02-2016, 10:36 AM
I can already deduce that there are 14 people who don't mind responding to a poll!

That's the 'magic of the internet' for you.
:)

Jen
25-06-2016, 11:21 AM
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Darren A
25-06-2016, 11:40 AM
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Signed :)

JPTaylor
25-06-2016, 12:41 PM
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

You don' t normally set the rules after the event!!

Doomanic
25-06-2016, 04:06 PM
FFS! We lost. Move on.

Paulo
25-06-2016, 04:15 PM
FFS! We lost. Move on.

This was only an advisory referendum as I understand it. Therefore once the exit negotiations are done, I would expect there to be another one to decide if you want to accept the T&Cs

drysuitdiver
25-06-2016, 05:25 PM
This was only an advisory referendum as I understand it. Therefore once the exit negotiations are done, I would expect there to be another one to decide if you want to accept the T&Cs

Could be finished easily on Monday in the commons . One simple vote by our elected representatives . Based on a huge amount of leave voters going " oh Fark " yesterday.

Decency would wait till Batley and Spen elect their next representative. Who was shot with a bullet , despite want Nigel said about won without a shot/bullet being fired.

Oh and of course Nigey saying if remain won by 52/48 it wouldn't be over. So yes it's not over.

PS how much got wiped off your pension plans yesterday ?


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Kalahari Diver
25-06-2016, 07:37 PM
FFS! We lost. Move on.

+1.

It is a free vote in a democracy. Sometimes the side you support loses.

David.

drysuitdiver
25-06-2016, 07:42 PM
+1.

It is a free vote in a democracy. Sometimes the side you support loses.

David.

You do understand that it's not a legally binding vote. And that Farage wouldn't let it go if it was the other way round. By his own admission .


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Darren A
25-06-2016, 07:42 PM
Sometimes you lose the battle, not the war :)

Hopefully its not over yet.

The BSACers dont think its over even though that result was 80:20 :)

drysuitdiver
25-06-2016, 07:43 PM
And change Is what was needed . But. Not a dummy spit and walking away.


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Paulo
25-06-2016, 07:45 PM
From FB


From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Darren A
25-06-2016, 07:48 PM
But. Not a dummy spit and walking away.


But I can understand why he said "Why should I do all the hard shit negotiating over the next 3 months, just to hand the result to someone else on a plate"

If I were him i'd be saying "#### you lot, you've made your bed, you lie in it"

DJS
25-06-2016, 07:49 PM
Signed :)

Why?
If the candidate you vote for in a general election doesn't win do you ask for the election to be repeated?
If the sports team you support doesn't win a match do you ask for a re-match?

A democratic process has taken place and whilst we may not like the result (yes, I did vote to remain) we have to accept the result and get on with it.

Darren A
25-06-2016, 07:52 PM
Why?

Er, because I wanted to.

DJS
25-06-2016, 07:58 PM
Er, because I wanted to.

And your answer to the other two questions is?

Baron015
25-06-2016, 08:51 PM
And your answer to the other two questions is?

Who cares, if we can get away with a re-match, that would be superb.

Or better still, just ignore the result. Peachy as far as I am concerned. Democracy will recover.

In the meantime:

Advice to Gove, Johnson or May.. or any other future PM;

- Don't rush anything. The longer everyone has to consider, the cooler heads will be, and the better the outcome. For everyone.
- Dont run the fundamentals through Tusk or Shultz. Their instincts seem to be to punish Britain and it's people for daring to challenge the onward march of the EU. Deal with the democratically elected leaders of France and Germany, whose responses have been far more balanced. And who have far more democratic legitimacy and accountability for the outcome.
- Article 50 is in itself a point of leverage. The fact that Tusk and Juncker wants Britain to serve it immediately is an good reason not to. Don't start the clock on exit until you have a good understanding as to what the outcome is going to be.
- Respect all existing EU laws. Don't reclaim or pass anything in parliament that breaks EU agreements or treaties until the settlement has been reached. Britain must respect it's obligations and maintain moral and legal legitimacy in the process.
- Be respectful of the EU, its aims, and it's ambitions. Express sorrow that it is not able to accommodate different tiers or membership as it expands, and win majority plebiscites in favour of it.



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IanB
26-06-2016, 05:19 AM
Why?
If the candidate you vote for in a general election doesn't win do you ask for the election to be repeated?You do get another chance in 5 years though

If the sports team you support doesn't win a match do you ask for a re-match?That's a game, hardly a reasonable comparison.


A democratic process has taken place and whilst we may not like the result (yes, I did vote to remain) we have to accept the result and get on with it.That's kind of where I am but the surge too the right, the nasty racism from a minority emboldened by the result makes me very sad. I am away for work on the other side of the world currently, I shall discuss with Mrs B. on my return about bailing out earlier than planned.

Chrisch
26-06-2016, 10:29 AM
I'm confused.

Is this the thread where we are rude to the other side or is it the other one?

Baron015
26-06-2016, 10:32 AM
I'm confused.

Is this the thread where we are rude to the other side or is it the other one?

This is the polite and constructive debate thread. The other one is where we batter each other.


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Paulo
26-06-2016, 10:46 AM
Frenchies have already said they are stopping their efforts in Callais with almost immediate effect. Therefore all those immigrants will be the UKs prob to sort out on your own.

Doomanic
26-06-2016, 11:11 AM
Please, please, please let this be true... (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/william-oliver-healey-referendum-petition_uk_576f8b28e4b0232d331e1b39)

Paulo
26-06-2016, 11:42 AM
Please, please, please let this be true... (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/william-oliver-healey-referendum-petition_uk_576f8b28e4b0232d331e1b39)

Surely he could just pull the plug on the campaign if it was true?

ziggi
26-06-2016, 01:39 PM
Sturgeon has apparently said there may be a legal clause which allows Holyrood to block brexit, I can't figure out if she'll be more loved or hated if she pulls it off.

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SoggyBottoms
26-06-2016, 02:18 PM
Please, please, please let this be true... (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/william-oliver-healey-referendum-petition_uk_576f8b28e4b0232d331e1b39)

it exists but it was hacked nearly immediately and only a fraction of the signatures are valid

SoggyBottoms
26-06-2016, 02:19 PM
Sturgeon has apparently said there may be a legal clause which allows Holyrood to block brexit, I can't figure out if she'll be more loved or hated if she pulls it off.

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that was discounted straight away. Art50 is the only legislation that is valid

Doomanic
26-06-2016, 02:36 PM
it exists but it was hacked nearly immediately and only a fraction of the signatures are valid

Point missed.

SoggyBottoms
26-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Point missed.

a) I'm not very clever
b) I'm not very clever

edit : seems it was a 4 chan punk so I'm good and youz rnt

ziggi
26-06-2016, 03:21 PM
that was discounted straight away. Art50 is the only legislation that is valid
Perhaps but the media are carrying it as news today after the Andrew Marr show, to be fair they analysis says it's unlikely but not necessarily impossible.
I dont care if it's implausible or pisses folk off, if there is a loophole to be explored to end this it suits me.


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Chrisch
26-06-2016, 04:34 PM
This is the polite and constructive debate thread. The other one is where we batter each other.


Thanks old chap. Awfully nice of you to take the trouble to clarify it for me. Do appreciate it. If it's not too much bother would you have a great objection to going home? Nothing personal old bean, too many of you, what.



:D

Baron015
26-06-2016, 05:45 PM
Thanks old chap. Awfully nice of you to take the trouble to clarify it for me. Do appreciate it. If it's not too much bother would you have a great objection to going home? Nothing personal old bean, too many of you, what.
:D

Well, there's the thing, you see, funny as it seems, apparently, not to put too finer point to it, looks like I won't actually be going anywhere at all. Not for two years anyway and to be honest, if we are being honest, probably not going anywhere after that either. If you don't mind too much, that is, I say, awfully nice of you, what ?


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Paulo
26-06-2016, 05:56 PM
Well, there's the thing, you see, funny as it seems, apparently, not to put too finer point to it, looks like I won't actually be going anywhere at all. Not for two years anyway and to be honest, if we are being honest, probably not going anywhere after that either. If you don't mind too much, that is, I say, awfully nice of you, what ?


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How long have you been in the UK and do you have a UK accent yet?

drysuitdiver
26-06-2016, 06:59 PM
How long have you been in the UK and do you have a UK accent yet?

oi we need forinz accents. how the feck will i know i have drank far tooo much otherwise. ;)

jamesp
26-06-2016, 10:08 PM
oi we need forinz accents. how the feck will i know i have drank far tooo much otherwise. ;)

Does the wall opposite have striplights on it?

Paulo
26-06-2016, 10:23 PM
oi we need forinz accents. how the feck will i know i have drank far tooo much otherwise. ;)

I found out earlier today that a very effective way was to paint a shed floor by hand. Drink 6 pints, bemd over at the waist (wayhay!!) and try paint 25m2 of flooring without losing your balance

Chrisch
27-06-2016, 06:54 AM
... I won't actually be going anywhere at all. Not for two years anyway ...

The KTM will be worn out by then.