How Much Is In Your Loop?

[Dreamdive]

Although alluded to in your initial rebreather training, the idea of ‘optimal loop volume’ escapes some divers. Even among advanced rebreather divers, the loop appears to be managing them instead of them managing their loop. They learned to cope, instead of, to control it.

What is ‘optimal loop volume’?.... Read more:

http://www.addhelium.com/#!articles/c2hg

[nigel hewitt]

<shrug> My counterlungs are my 'hands off' buoyancy trim for when I have two hands on the camera.
I'm sure you can damn me for doing it wrong but that works for me.
Minimum loop is comfortable, I'm not sure about your 'optimal' but I have a nasty feeling I hover between the two.

[nickb]

^^^
Doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me when I'm swimming around the bottom. On deco I try to maintain minimum loop plus a little O2. That way when I hit minimum again I add a bit more O2. Saves the solenoid firing and messing with my feng shui.

[notdeadyet]

I thought posting links to blogs hosted on shop websites was frowned upon? I've already had the article emailed to me once already (no idea why, don't think I've ever been an Add Helium customer).

Are divers really having the loop manage them or whatever or is it just a way of directing traffic to a commercial website?

[Hot Totty]

I thought posting links to blogs hosted on shop websites was frowned upon? I've already had the article emailed to me once already (no idea why, don't think I've ever been an Add Helium customer).

Are divers really having the loop manage them or whatever or is it just a way of directing traffic to a commercial website?

The cynic in me says traffic ;)

[Paulo]

Click bait

[SimonK]

....................

Are divers really having the loop manage them or whatever or is it just a way of directing traffic to a commercial website?

but they've got a science council you know

[gobfish1]

Project as well all they need now is a guru or two ,

o wait ,



no dont

[MikeF]

I thought posting links to blogs hosted on shop websites was frowned upon? I've already had the article emailed to me once already (no idea why, don't think I've ever been an Add Helium customer).

Are divers really having the loop manage them or whatever or is it just a way of directing traffic to a commercial website?

either that or it's possibly a cultural thing. most europeans seem to just get on with quietly achieving their goals and pass on help and advice if asked for, while some of our colonial cousins seem to need to constantly reassure themselves about their awesomeness by telling everyone else how they should be diving and occasionally pointing out the bleeding obvious without being asked.

though on this occasion I'd err on the side of click bait in the run up to christmas.

[dwhitlow]

... constantly reassure themselves about their awesomeness by telling everyone else how they should be diving and occasionally pointing out the bleeding obvious without being asked.isn't that what TDF is really for?

perhaps they want to become a TDF advertiser?

[Baron015]

<<insert post here>>


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[Dreamdive]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

[BTS]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

Is this sarcasm or am I just being too British?

Min loop is like buoyancy, takes a little practice but once you have it, you have it.... I don't know anyone who suffers badly due to the counterlungs, if they did they wouldn't be doing worthwhile CCR dives...

Oh, and for the record... I am the one round here that knows everything.... apparently ;)

[Vanny]

Come back soon, missing you already ��

[Hot Totty]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

Perhaps if it didn't involve clicking through to a commercial orientated website ............ You see we are a naturally cynical lot who tend to be able to see thinly veiled ruses to gain traffic, that's not to say what you have to say isn't valid (no idea I didn't click ) but we tend not to like being used - just my twopenneth:) You may also find a lot of us just enjoy 'playing devils advocate' :p

[Paulo]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

Calm down dear

[Turbanator]

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

With permission and appropriate payment, I presume. ;)

[nigel hewitt]

ROTFL.

Let's admit it. You came here to tell us how smart you are...

...and we joined in with the game.

[MikeF]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

I don't think anyone was offended (along with apologise it's not a word you see often on TDF apart from your posts). they were commenting more on the perceived attempt to increase traffic on the add helium website and the somewhat pretentious nature of the 'Add Helium - The rebreather epicenter' website itself.

The worlds only CCR travel company? educational articles on the merits of pockets? statements such as Be sure you are working with a full-time, experienced CCR instructor and CCR retailer to ensure you get the best available information.


Don't take the comments personally, there's no doubt that the Add Helium team contains some talented individuals and has done some impressive stuff but you just hit the culture clash between the anarchy of the UK 'dive scene' where everyone no matter how qualified or experienced gets challenged and the deference of the US 'dive scene' to 'professional dive educators' and other experts.

there are no guru's here (apart from possibly BTS in his own tiny pond :)) but there are some very experienced divers who despite appearances do occasionally dive and who are open to intelligent debate on the latest thinking and if you post up thought provoking stuff you may find yourself engaged in some spirited debate as I get the impression that there are more than a few members on here who would probably have been described as troublemakers at school (or nowadays maybe challenging).

They were the kids with an active and enquiring mind who objected to being patronised by teachers and authority figures, and they just suspected that the primary reason for your post was not to provide information on a concept that has been around since the year dot and is taught at the most basic rebreather course level, but was a cynical attempt to promote Add Helium and raise brand awareness in the UK and if you patronise the kids they're going to get all unruly and call you out.

[OutOfTest]

Didn't add helium moan that someone was selling Revos in Key Largo (their area) not long ago and now they're advertising in England?

Seems a double standard to me.


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[BTS]

there are no guru's here (apart from possibly BTS in his own tiny pond :))


To be honest, it is more of a foot spa... and it may be broken..

[ebt]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

Flounce score 3/10.

By all means be proud of your 'work', but if you're teaching granny to suck eggs dont be surprised when she just smiles and says "yes dear" ;) Being petulant at the response is likely to ensure granny doesnt invite you around for tea.

[OutOfTest]

information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes.
.

MOD1. Or background research. Does nobody do this over there?

Background research is not limited to reading something as basic as optimal loop volume on the Internet.


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[ARJAYM]

Well having read all the replies to this post I thought best check out the link.

It seems to me that its just mod 1 stuff bulled up a bit. Don't want too much or too little in the loop. Anything else doesn't make a major difference.

As far as passing us all to a commercial organisation well does it matter because we may learn something and it costs nowt. Suits me here in Yorkshire.😉

[Soup Dragon]

Well having read all the replies to this post I thought best check out the link.

It seems to me that its just mod 1 stuff bulled up a bit. Don't want too much or too little in the loop. Anything else doesn't make a major difference.

As far as passing us all to a commercial organisation well does it matter because we may learn something and it costs nowt. Suits me here in Yorkshire.😉

[Brad_Horn]

Although alluded to in your initial rebreather training, the idea of ‘optimal loop volume’ escapes some divers. Even among advanced rebreather divers, the loop appears to be managing them instead of them managing their loop. They learned to cope, instead of, to control it.
What is ‘optimal loop volume’?.... Read more: http://www.addhelium.com/#!articles/c2hg

Claudia, This doesn't appear that bad an article or topic. BUT your paper seems to have one major flaw: namely how does the diver know that their rebreather actually has sufficient enough "breathable loop volume" to even make it to your 5L "optimal loop volume"? When dived in the various orientations that divers get themselves into.
The actual breathable loop volume of a rebreather is not a figure one normally finds associated with a units sales literature: typically being an unknown!

CE calls for only 4.5L breathable loop volume! and even then it is not something routinely tested nor data published on. Feel free to prove that I am wrong on this!
I can only find evidence of one type of rebreather having even been tested as having met this requirement. http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/DV_OR_Tidalvolume_090911.pdf Simply adding up the size of the CLs fitted to a CCR isn't sufficient - as not all the volume is breathable - dependent on the individual unit design if the CLs are caged or how the diver fits their CLs if OTS or even the conflict with other equipment like wings, torches or cylinders!

[Hot Totty]

Wondered how long before some pdf's would appear ;)

[jamesp]

Now there is a philosophy question!

What is the minimum loop volume of a mythical rebreather?

zero or infinite?

[Darren A]

Come on, own up. Who said....

beetlejuicebeetlejuicebeetlejuice

:)

Mal - get your red pencil ready :0

[jturner]

At last, the wait is over and he's back, with the regularity of an unwelcome season! We must be due for an update on the latest Apoc newsletter and imminent release of the latest model that includes that automatically controlled BCD that's being discussed on the other thread...

[Hot Totty]

It's all mil spec you know :p

[gordyp]

At last, the wait is over and he's back, with the regularity of an unwelcome season! We must be due for an update on the latest Apoc newsletter and imminent release of the latest model that includes that automatically controlled BCD that's being discussed on the other thread...

Does the Apoc now come fitted with the Auto BCD of death??


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[gobfish1]

Does the Apoc now come fitted with the Auto BCD of death??


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auto set for 6m and run runtime of 36mins and it will send you up , handy if you pass out from not purging the N2 , :P:

[jturner]

auto set for 6m and run runtime of 36mins and it will send you up , hand if you pass out from not purging the N2 , :P:

Haven't you missed out the automatically bailing you out for the ascent too, or did that feature get dropped?!!

[jturner]

Does the Apoc now come fitted with the Auto BCD of death??

No idea, but since it seems to be based on the same "philosophy", is a "revolutionary" product that will render all others obsolete immediately, is going to be sold in vast numbers of units and also comes with PDFs quoting loads of ISO standards, it should be on the options list at least surely?!!

[matt]

Oh dear.

[Capt Morgan]

Oh good :shagger

[Ruffy]

...

[String]

<shrug> My counterlungs are my 'hands off' buoyancy trim for when I have two hands on the camera.
I'm sure you can damn me for doing it wrong but that works for me.

Im glad im not the only one that does this ! (or admits to it).

[WFO]

Well I am so glad to have found you guys! I had no idea that a pool of such gifted and brilliant divers exists! I apologise to have offended you with my attempt to provide information on a concept us idiot Americans don't seem to get sometimes. I would love to learn from you since obviously you know it all. Whereas, I never will and no matter how "great of diver" I may be, there will always be somebody better out there.

I am looking forward to all the learning I will get from reading about your knowledge. Would love to put it on the article section.

Not "offended".... cynical, belligerent and grumpy... there's a big difference.

Offended is something for whingey cnuts who have therapists and know what a quiche is.