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ootini
21-01-2013, 11:48 AM
Does anyone here dive a Semi Closed Rebreather?
I'm still trying to get my bonce around Rebreathers in general and was curious as to what the point of an SCR is, if you achieve no deco obligation benefit?

nickb
21-01-2013, 11:55 AM
It's a gas extender

ootini
21-01-2013, 11:57 AM
It's a gas extender

Thank you! I thought that might be the case but wasn't sure if I was missing some other, hidden, benefit.

Shaw-Tek
21-01-2013, 11:57 AM
If you would like to do a try dive on the kiss gem SCR rebreather get in touch. I have both the standard gem and the sidemount gem aka sidekick.

ootini
21-01-2013, 11:58 AM
If you would like to do a try dive on the kiss gem SCR rebreather get in touch. I have both the standard gem and the sidemount gem aka sidekick.

Thanks, I appreciate the offer but I think for now I'm going to concentrate on OC then just skip the SCR and look at a closed circuit unit.

notdeadyet
21-01-2013, 12:19 PM
It's a gas extender

With all the complications of CCR and none of the benefits of a bigger twinset.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Chantelle
21-01-2013, 01:26 PM
With all the complications of CCR and none of the benefits of a bigger twinset.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

At least, with the RB80, there are no electronics. I like that.

ebt
21-01-2013, 02:55 PM
With all the complications of CCR and none of the benefits of a bigger twinset.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

oh i dunno. getting shot of sensors/leckies has its appeal at times. you wouldnt beleive some of the dog shite units I've seen people diving..... ;)

Markymark
23-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I have started diving a drager dolphin, and it's quite good, with the costs of fills, and the units now cheap, good extended diving for less than the cost of twinset diving, and without the risks of the electronics etc
Limits to 40mtrs which for me is fine

ootini
23-01-2013, 01:48 PM
with the costs of fills, and the units now cheap, good extended diving for less than the cost of twinset diving, and without the risks of the electronics

Really? My twinset and regs came to just under a grand.

Also, maybe I just don't understand the unit, but I thought there were still electronic components in a Dolphin? no? ** I stand corrected, no electronics at all. Never knew that.

Stan
23-01-2013, 01:54 PM
I think if you take the lid off it, you'll see a hot water bottle, a couple of pairs of industrial marigolds (black if was the military spec, pink in Mark's I believe), some bits of wood, string, the odd plumbing fitting, hose pipe and some g-clamps to hold it all together.
Something like that anyway. I, obviously am an scr expert ;-)

johnkendall
23-01-2013, 02:11 PM
Does anyone here dive a Semi Closed Rebreather?
I'm still trying to get my bonce around Rebreathers in general and was curious as to what the point of an SCR is, if you achieve no deco obligation benefit?

I dive an RB80. It's basically the bastard child of a drainpipe and an accordian. It has a number of advantages, but the big one is that it extends the gas usage. Approx 8:1 vs OC. This gives loads of time at depth. Downsides are that it reduces the FO2 that you are breathing compared to the drive gas, and so gives more deco than OC. It can also become hypoxic at shallow depths. Because of these issues it's not much fun diving it shallow, or on short dives, however on long/deep dives where you have to deal with a bunch of deco and deco gases anyway it's great.

nickb
23-01-2013, 02:20 PM
Really? My twinset and regs came to just under a grand. You could've got two for that - good ones too ;)

ootini
23-01-2013, 02:41 PM
Just out of interest would anyone recommend an SCR as a stepping stone between OC and CCR? Or is it a bit of a waste of time?

nickb
23-01-2013, 02:44 PM
Just out of interest would anyone recommend an SCR as a stepping stone between OC and CCR? Or is it a bit of a waste of time?Nooooo! Don't do it FFS!

If you're serious about this, find someone with some good knowledge of Inspos and investigate a cheap refurbished Classic. Speak to Mark Powell, I had a mail shot from him the other day about Inspo try dives

Markymark
23-01-2013, 02:48 PM
No electronics at all in a dolphin, rebreather divers will poo poo them, but they are a great way to start off on the principles of RB diving, without all the electronic failures you hear about.
Dolphins sell on eBay for about 500, so when you think a 5ltr of 50% O2 will last you about 3hrs of diving, the costs are not bad at all.
You are limited to 40mtrs, which for me is fine, but strip clean and reassemble is about 30mins. And no electronics needing expensive repairs, I think it's not a bad way to go

nickb
23-01-2013, 02:51 PM
PM me your email address Dave. I'll forward on Mark's mail and you can have a think about that.

Stonybonytony
23-01-2013, 03:06 PM
Shaw-tek / anyone else -any views on using the sidemount SCR for bailout from a CCR?

It's a pain putting on nice small streamlined CCR, then hanging a load of tanks on as well, which never get used except to check they are working ok. I've not thought it through, my first impression is that for efficient deco you'd still need a variety of gases, so wouldn't be reducing the number of tanks, just their size? Maybe as it's only a last resort, you just accept that if you bail you'll have to do a long, inefficient deco, but at least with the SCR you have plenty of gas to do it with?

Squidge
23-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Now, I don't know much about rebreathers (but I do know a bit), and what I'm getting from this thread is:

CCR

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/09/25/BlackBerry10-demo-meeting-6_610x407.jpg

SCR

http://phillbarron.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/tin-can-telephone.jpg



Am I right? ;)

nickb
23-01-2013, 03:18 PM
Am I right? ;)Close - SCR:

http://coloringcrew.estaticos.net/coloring-book/painted/201101/3995272297c87c4ac7aa8946b158bf6b.png

Markymark
23-01-2013, 03:21 PM
I think if you take the lid off it, you'll see a hot water bottle, a couple of pairs of industrial marigolds (black if was the military spec, pink in Mark's I believe), some bits of wood, string, the odd plumbing fitting, hose pipe and some g-clamps to hold it all together.
Something like that anyway. I, obviously am an scr expert ;-)
Pretty much
Very simple, and unlike its younger cousins, doesn't try to kill you every five seconds

Squidge
23-01-2013, 03:23 PM
Pretty much
Very simple, and unlike its younger cousins, doesn't try to kill you every five seconds

Well, where's the excitement in that?

:)

Andy W
23-01-2013, 03:23 PM
Just out of interest would anyone recommend an SCR as a stepping stone between OC and CCR? Or is it a bit of a waste of time?

Waste of a lot of money, and a fair bit of time - assuming that you bought and sold a used SCR with no loss you'd still end up paying for courses and consumables with very little of the skill set transferrable from SCR to CCR.

nickb
23-01-2013, 03:27 PM
Close - SCR:

http://coloringcrew.estaticos.net/coloring-book/painted/201101/3995272297c87c4ac7aa8946b158bf6b.pngActually, this is more of a Sentinel diver - he looks a bit like Tufty

Andy W
23-01-2013, 03:30 PM
No electronics at all in a dolphin, rebreather divers will poo poo them, but they are a great way to start off on the principles of RB diving, without all the electronic failures you hear about.
Dolphins sell on eBay for about 500, so when you think a 5ltr of 50% O2 will last you about 3hrs of diving, the costs are not bad at all.
You are limited to 40mtrs, which for me is fine, but strip clean and reassemble is about 30mins. And no electronics needing expensive repairs, I think it's not a bad way to go

If I was doing sub 40m diving and enjoyed sneaking up on the fishies whilst breathing nice warm moist gas then i'd be tempted by SCR - IIRC the new Hollis SCR uses a variable valve to maximise the efficiency of gas addition and this might make SCR a credible alternative to OC for shallower stuff.

Did some OC stuff for th first time in ages whilst in Mexico and I was unpleasantly surprised just how uncomfortable OC is after "just" 50 minutes.

notdeadyet
23-01-2013, 04:04 PM
Shaw-tek / anyone else -any views on using the sidemount SCR for bailout from a CCR?

It's a pain putting on nice small streamlined CCR, then hanging a load of tanks on as well, which never get used except to check they are working ok. I've not thought it through, my first impression is that for efficient deco you'd still need a variety of gases, so wouldn't be reducing the number of tanks, just their size? Maybe as it's only a last resort, you just accept that if you bail you'll have to do a long, inefficient deco, but at least with the SCR you have plenty of gas to do it with?

I wouldn't like to bail to any of the SCRs I've tried. They breathe like an asthmatic coal miner, the last thing you want in a co2 hit. Bailout is a hassle but high helium on a good reg is hard to beat when you need it.

I can see an SCR for when the worst has passed but I cant see myself not having a fat tin of bailout for the bottom. In which case it's more kit than OC bailout.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

londonsean69
23-01-2013, 04:05 PM
I dive an RB80. It's basically the bastard child of a drainpipe and an accordian. It has a number of advantages, but the big one is that it extends the gas usage. Approx 8:1 vs OC. This gives loads of time at depth. Downsides are that it reduces the FO2 that you are breathing compared to the drive gas, and so gives more deco than OC. It can also become hypoxic at shallow depths. Because of these issues it's not much fun diving it shallow, or on short dives, however on long/deep dives where you have to deal with a bunch of deco and deco gases anyway it's great.

I had the EDO-04, which was a poor copy of the RB80. It was a learning curve, especially as there was no course for it (apart from GUE).

I imagine it would be fantastic in a cave, or a deep wreck, but for the shallow stuff it was all too much of a faff. And it was bloody heavy, even with only twin 7s on it as the drive gas.

I do still toy with the idea of a little rebreather, I even went so far as to buy an Inspo at the end of 2011. I then sold it at the start of 2012 :) The more I thought about it, the more I CBA with the hassle. Now a Draeger Dolphin, I could be more tempted by :) They just seem a bit easier to use than a full blown CCR, not to mention smaller and lighter.

Markymark
23-01-2013, 05:15 PM
I suppose they are marmite, you either love them or hate them,
I have been quite impressed with their simplicity, and maybe or some, not enough bells and whistles

You may get a second hand breather for 1k, but add in servicing and repairs, and you could be nearer 2k

Dolphins are fun and easy

ebt
23-01-2013, 05:38 PM
If I was doing sub 40m diving and enjoyed sneaking up on the fishies whilst breathing nice warm moist gas then i'd be tempted by SCR - IIRC the new Hollis SCR uses a variable valve to maximise the efficiency of gas addition and this might make SCR a credible alternative to OC for shallower stuff.

hmmmm if you ask ccr divers what they hate, the usual comment is something do with the electronics. If you look at SCR, its one major advantage is its simplicity.

The hollis unit is like a pig walked into a bread factory and the output was a falafel pitta. Disappointing, unless you're some kind of freak ;)

Daniel Taylor
23-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Just out of interest would anyone recommend an SCR as a stepping stone between OC and CCR? Or is it a bit of a waste of time?

Not sure looking at an SCR and asking if its any good is the right way around the issue... What diving are you going to do, now, next year and in 5 years (you may not know that..). If you going to do 40m+ deco dives, mixed gas etc. then I would say consider CCR as next step, and I'd say go see some instructors and try dive some units.

If you're going to be doing <40m dives, no deco, air or nitrox, I'd say SCR may be worth considering, again, try dives will help you.

Personally, I did an SCR course to help make my mind up, and whilst I am diving in my club, I can see it'd be a great tool for the diving we do (lots of 20-25m diving, odd trip with a 35m wreck)... However, I've never resolved the 'redundancy' issue to my satisfaction (I think twins are easier than an SCR and a slide slung)

If you're interested buy a book on it, there's a few good ones.

Dan

notdeadyet
23-01-2013, 08:16 PM
hmmmm if you ask ccr divers what they hate, the usual comment is something do with the electronics. If you look at SCR, its one major advantage is its simplicity.

Yeah but it's a bit like saying you can't be arsed with the hassle of tyres on a car. Doesn't mean a horse is a better choice. Although I know if it was a lady horse you may not be so picky :D


The hollis unit is like a pig walked into a bread factory and the output was a falafel pitta. Disappointing, unless you're some kind of freak ;)

:)

londonsean69
23-01-2013, 08:30 PM
Yeah but it's a bit like saying you can't be arsed with the hassle of tyres on a car. Doesn't mean a horse is a better choice. Although I know if it was a lady horse you may not be so picky :D

:)

Or people just ignore their tyres until they start slipping and sliding on the road........so the CCR equivalent of going "Oh, 6.2 bar O2 on the surface, I think it's time I changed the sensor" :)