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damianb
19-09-2015, 11:47 AM
I'm ordering a 20KG tub of Sofnolime but will probably have to keep it in the loft.
I plan on decanting about 5/6KG which I could store somewhere to hand, under the stairs or wherever.
What airtight tub do you guys use / would you suggest?

steelemonkey
19-09-2015, 11:51 AM
https://www.andrewjamesworldwide.com/usercontrols/productIndividual.aspx?ProductID=205

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001HCQ75W/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=569136327&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001HBP7HW&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0WMQ2YADGFJGPGQ7W2BT

Lots of other uses as well.

Baron015
19-09-2015, 12:29 PM
I'm ordering a 20KG tub of Sofnolime but will probably have to keep it in the loft.
I plan on decanting about 5/6KG which I could store somewhere to hand, under the stairs or wherever.
What airtight tub do you guys use / would you suggest?

I once ordered 4 x 5kg tubs of Sofnalime and now I can use those forever for decanting.

damianb
19-09-2015, 01:01 PM
I was considering something like this but won't be spending nearly 30 on a bloody plastic bottle!
http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/waterproof-poly-storage-container-15-l-5546.html?gclid=CPr3h4-Tg8gCFWsUwwod3h4IGg#.Vf1by3B4WrU


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

nigel hewitt
19-09-2015, 02:16 PM
I once ordered 4 x 5kg tubs of Sofnalime and now I can use those forever for decanting.
ditto.
It does all the labelling too.
I take these on trips.

Dsix36
19-09-2015, 03:47 PM
I use the plastic jugs that you get kitty litter in. Be careful not to get your sorb and kitty litter confused.

BTS
19-09-2015, 03:53 PM
Any 5 litre plastic container with a screw cap will do... Don't over think it.... go get a gallon of scrumpy, drink it, rinse it.dry it.. job done

bubbleless
19-09-2015, 04:14 PM
As above 5 litre container from almost anything (safe), ready mix screen wash 3ish, and you can use a plastic coke bottle as a funnel

http://2.imimg.com/data2/NE/QV/MY-1784904/5litre-mineral-water-bottle-250x250.jpg

nigel hewitt
19-09-2015, 05:27 PM
It isn't as if you need to treat it specially.
The chemistry is to banal to go off, you just don't want it drying out or it takes time to start.

'Sorb is one of those wonderful things for a diver. Something that NEEDS to be just a bit damp.

matt
19-09-2015, 05:58 PM
It needs to be nothing fancy - if it is just for storage then get a couple of large air tight "tupperware" containers from the supermarket.

If you want to pour it then get the cereal storage types.

A real skinflint would get a large 3L water and store in that - they are pretty flimsy for travel, but I would think more than adequate for under the stairs.

If you need a funnel try the dishwasher section.

Matt.

matt
19-09-2015, 06:06 PM
'Sorb is one of those wonderful things for a diver. Something that NEEDS to be just a bit damp.

My understanding is that it is made with 16-20% water but it is encapsulated in the granules - hence it feels dry and should be kept dry.

I assume you did not mean it should be kept in a damp environment?

Matt.

BTS
19-09-2015, 06:11 PM
It needs a 10% min moisture content to be effective....

It will take moisture from your breath hence, I assume, Nigels.comment about it needing a kickstart if below this..

frogfone
19-09-2015, 06:41 PM
Buy my lovely waterproof tubs on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291563292793?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649)

They're great for taking stuff on boats too. ;)

Sharon

BTS
19-09-2015, 06:43 PM
6 litre is probably better to be fair.. you will get two fills out of them... I never quite manage it with a five....

What is your best price Sharon?

frogfone
19-09-2015, 06:51 PM
Tubs are 5 ea and I'll do postage at cost for TDF members.

Sharon

matt
19-09-2015, 07:12 PM
It needs a 10% min moisture content to be effective....

It will take moisture from your breath hence, I assume, Nigels.comment about it needing a kickstart if below this..

Can you post a reference? I don't think it works like that.

matt
19-09-2015, 07:15 PM
6 litre is probably better to be fair.. you will get two fills out of them... I never quite manage it with a five....

What is your best price Sharon?

I get 8 fills from a 20kg tub with some spare. You should have 100g spare from 5kg with 2 fills unless you're over-packing...

BTS
19-09-2015, 08:46 PM
Can you post a reference? I don't think it works like that.

From memory of high school chemistry... The CO2 doesn't bond with the lime, if reacts with the water content to create boric acid, this then bonds with the lime to create chalk.....

I personally wouldn't use a dry lime {sub 10% moisture but how would you know, best keep it in a plastic tub to be on the safe side ;) }as it is probably very powdery but it stands to reason a hygroscopic substance will absorb moisture from the atmosphere it is contained within....


I get 8 fills from a 20kg tub with some spare. You should have 100g spare from 5kg with 2 fills unless you're over-packing...

I don't over pack, I get just under two fills from a five litre tub, are you sure you are not under packing? ;)

matt
19-09-2015, 09:30 PM
The CO2 doesn't bond with the lime, if reacts with the water content to create boric acid, this then bonds with the lime to create chalk.....

As you say, the CO2 dissolves in the water (of which Sofnolime is 16-20%, so says Molecular Products) before combining with the sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) to make sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) before it combines with the calcium hydroxide (slaked lime) to become calcium carbonate (chalk), water and sodium hydroxide (which acts as a catalyst I beleive).

So whilst water is used in the reaction it comes from the granules and not from the atmosphere. That's how I understand it from what I've read in vendor publications anyhow.

Certainly I am not a chemist, so open to seeing publications to the contrary. :nerd:


I personally wouldn't use a dry lime {sub 10% moisture but how would you know, best keep it in a plastic tub to be on the safe side ;) }as it is probably very powdery

I wouldn't know how to measure it. I think dust causes "clumping", but I think that comes from crushing during over-packing (anecdotal, not found any research on that topic as yet).


but it stands to reason a hygroscopic substance will absorb moisture from the atmosphere it is contained within....

Where did you see that Sofnolime is hydroscopic?


I don't over pack, I get just under two fills from a five litre tub, are you sure you are not under packing? ;)

According to some yes, according to the manufacturer no :x:

When I used to over-pack I would get 7 and some left overs from a keg. Now I properly-pack I get 8 and a bit left over - I don't get much left, so I guess I am slightly over-packing it mostly due to internet paranoia!

Cheers
Matt.

BTS
19-09-2015, 09:39 PM
Where did you see that Sofnolime is hydroscopic?
.

Isn't it? I guessed it probably was... High school chemistry again....

Also IIRC Lithium hydroxide is proper caustic soda, the stuff we use is a weaker cousin. ..

Maybe a chemist geek can advise..

matt
19-09-2015, 09:52 PM
Isn't it? I guessed it probably was... High school chemistry again....

Also IIRC Lithium hydroxide is proper caustic soda, the stuff we use is a weaker cousin. ..

Maybe a chemist geek can advise..

Would be interested in a proper chemist view, for sure.

Perhaps lithium hydroxide (LiOH) is a source of confusion because that is hygroscopic, whereas from what I see sodium hydroxide is a "saturated solution". I'm way beyond understanding the intricate differences in the chemicals I'm afraid...

Perhaps it does absorb water but I had understood it didn't contribute to the reaction. Interesting discussion! Makes a change from dishwashers and cars ;-)

Cheers
Matt.

notdeadyet
19-09-2015, 10:50 PM
There is a big difference between slime and proper sodium hydroxide (lye as the Yanks call it) so I think there may be something to Matt's encapsulation theory. If you get slime and water on your skin nothing happens, get sodium hydroxide and water on your skin and you know about it. I'm not a chemist but whenever I've handled real sodium hydroxide the advice has always been adding lime to water is safe, adding water to lime is unsafe as it gets very hot and very fizzy very quick. I've never tried finding out. With sofnalime, you can do what you like with it, it makes your skin go weird (I believe it turns the fat to soap) but I've ended up covered in the stuff by accident and the worst that happened was the skin on the soles of my feet stuck to the shower tray.

You could do this with sofnolime and not even notice. I don't know if it is just because it is so densely packed but there is some treatment to it that makes it a hell of a lot more stable than sodium hydroxide as a powder


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtUrjfnSnA

matt
20-09-2015, 07:32 AM
There is a big difference between slime and proper sodium hydroxide (lye as the Yanks call it) so I think there may be something to Matt's encapsulation theory.

The amount of water is carefully controlled, so it would not make sense to leave to chance the water for the reaction coming from an external source.

An easy test would be to pass dry gas i.e. 96% O2 and 4% CO2 through a scrubber and check the output - I would guess it will be 100% O2 and 0% CO2.

I've seen people eat Sofnolime to prove to airport staff it is safe - wouldn't do it myself but they did not inwardly combust!

Cheers
Matt.

damianb
20-09-2015, 08:51 AM
Buy my lovely waterproof tubs on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291563292793?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649)

They're great for taking stuff on boats too. ;)

Sharon

These look spot on!

Janos
20-09-2015, 05:45 PM
These look spot on!

Indeed! Just placed an order.

Janos

keithsh
20-09-2015, 07:39 PM
I use 6 pint milk cartons. They exactly hold a full inspiration fill, so if you're going on a weekend trip just decant into one and you're sorted.

damianb
21-09-2015, 12:31 PM
Indeed! Just placed an order.

Janos

Dito :)

jturner
21-09-2015, 03:17 PM
Also IIRC Lithium hydroxide is proper caustic soda, the stuff we use is a weaker cousin. ..

Maybe a chemist geek can advise..

No, caustic soda is sodium hydroxide. No geekery required, just many many hours making solutions of it on a large scale! As far as bases go, it's a pretty good workhorse and strong stuff.


Perhaps lithium hydroxide (LiOH) is a source of confusion because that is hygroscopic, whereas from what I see sodium hydroxide is a "saturated solution". I'm way beyond understanding the intricate differences in the chemicals I'm afraid...

Sodium hydroxide can come in many forms of course. Schools and the like usually use a fairly dilute aqueous solution as a strong base. In my old job, we used the same or more concentrated solutions, which were getting pretty viscous and burned you very easily. It was made from solid pellets of anhydrous sodium hydroxide, which looked somewhat like ice pellets but were impressively hygroscopic, partially dissolving and sticking themselves into a disgusting, corrosive mass like a post-slobbber-part-dried bag of boiled sweets when exposed to the air for too long (think minutes rather than hours). The pellets also were fond of sticking to exposed skin if given the chance, giving you nasty chemical burns.

JPTaylor
21-09-2015, 04:41 PM
I'm ordering a 20KG tub of Sofnolime but will probably have to keep it in the loft.


Why keep it in the loft? It may get a bit cold up there, I'd keep it inside the house (e.g. under the stairs), been cold can effect it. If you do, best to let it warm up to room tempurature before using.....

BTS
21-09-2015, 04:55 PM
Why keep it in the loft? It may get a bit cold up there, I'd keep it inside the house (e.g. under the stairs), been cold can effect it. If you do, best to let it warm up to room tempurature before using.....

Being cold is not an issue but if it gets below freezing it is an issue, the sorb will be fucked if it freezes...

JPTaylor
21-09-2015, 05:03 PM
Being cold is not an issue but if it gets below freezing it is an issue, the sorb will be fucked if it freezes...

Maybe not as serious, but still thinks it's best to let it warm up to "normal" tempuratures, so I keep current tub at least inside house...

matt
22-09-2015, 08:39 AM
I keep my lime and unit in the house in the winter and in the shed in the summer.

It never gets to freezing in he shed, but it does get very cold.

Matt.

Janos
28-09-2015, 08:54 PM
Indeed! Just placed an order.


They arrived a few days back and they're great. Bigger than a 5l sorb tub, so you don't have to be quite so anal in tapping down the lime to fit as much in.
And because they're cylindrical they seem smaller to pack too.

Very happy.

Janos

Energy58
29-09-2015, 04:23 AM
It needs a 10% min moisture content to be effective....

It will take moisture from your breath hence, I assume, Nigels.comment about it needing a kickstart if below this..

It is mainly Calcium Hydroxide (Lime) Ca(OH)2 with a small amount of sodium hydroxide (caustic soda/lye) NaOH and water - water and Sodium Hydroxide are catalysts so they are not consumed in the reaction which produces Calcium Carbonate CaCO3 (Chalk/Limestone) and more water as a reaction product.

CO2 dissolves in the water (making a weak acid - carbonic acid) which allows it to react with the NaOH (a strong base) to produce Sodium Bicarbonate which in turn reacts with the Lime to produce calcium carbonate and sodium hydroxide and more water.

It needs enough water in it to start the reaction but after that it produces plenty of water as a reaction product.

I think therefore it is made with a controlled moisture content which is sufficient to start to remove CO2 in any circumstances (ie even if the gas is absolutely dry) but there may well be enough water in your breath to start the reaction anyway. The stuff must be able to cope with the water of reaction so there probably isn't a big issue with it getting damp except that it may cause clumping which might affect the packing.

matt
19-10-2015, 01:14 PM
For those that are interested in Sofnolime I received a reply from Molecular Products Quality Assurance department on the question of water-content:



The Sofnolime is not basically hygroscopic but we do a moisture test on the material when testing.

Moisture absorption test involves placing about 10g in a tared 50ml weighing bottle and the opened bottle is left in a closed container in which the atmosphere is maintained at 85% relative humidity by being in equilibrium with sulphuric acid having a specific gravity of 1.1g. The material is weigh again and the increase in weight should be no more that 7.5%

The Sofnolime is mixed with water in the production as moisture must be present for it to work and absorb the CO2.

Matt.