Deploying a DSMB with a spool.

[Ron MacRae]

As an emergency backup I carry a spool and one of the small oral inflate DSMBs. As with all kit I have a practice from time to time.

I'm having a problem with the spool once I release the DSMB and the spool starts to spin, or rather doesn't. I can't seem to hold the spool in a way that spins freely in thick gloves. If I have thumb and finger lightly across the holes then the edge of the spool catches my gloves and it doesnt spin. I've ended up just letting the spool go. It normally spins and rises about a metre as the DSMB goes up and then falls back into my hand. Unfortunatly last time I tried I didn't catch the spool and a) ended up having to pull up in 10m of line to get it back and b) almost caused my buddy to spit out his reg laughing. :)

I've had a look at a few videos but all these guys are not wearing gloves, which makes it easy.

What am I doing wrong?

Options I can think of are a) remove glove or b) carry a pencil to use as an axle.
I though about putting the double ender through the hole in the spool but it won't fit.

What do other people do?

[ebt]

palm facing down, had slightly curved downwards, line goes up through middle two fingers. Another way is to make an "OK" around the line with the spool below.

Provided you're using a bog standard cheap as chips delrin spool it'll pay out then when the bag hits the surface the spool will start slowly dropping, so you can grab it.

[Steve Clark]

I just let the line run between two fingers with the spool spinning about below. Give it a prod if it gets stuck. Hold on to it when the bag reaches the surface.

I also don't bother much with the boltsnap. I see a lot of people using it as a winder on the line or clipping the spool off whenever they stop. It's all unnecessary, if you are just holding the spool, it can't rotate and line can't come off. No need to clip off.

Steve

[Garf]

I also don't bother much with the boltsnap. I see a lot of people using it as a winder on the line or clipping the spool off whenever they stop. It's all unnecessary, if you are just holding the spool, it can't rotate and line can't come off. No need to clip off.

Steve

horses for courses. I find it easier to have it clipped off if we are passing the bag around the team during the gas switch. Less likely get dropped.

[Ron MacRae]

Thanks guys. Seems simple when explained. I'll give it a try.

[nickb]

Stick your finger in the hole like Witchieblackcat*

* don't do this!!!

[ebt]

horses for courses. I find it easier to have it clipped off if we are passing the bag around the team during the gas switch. Less likely get dropped.

If you're worried about dropping it, you want something smaller. Maybe a pony? ;)

[matt]

horses for courses. I find it easier to have it clipped off if we are passing the bag around the team during the gas switch. Less likely get dropped.

You pass the bag around?

[Steve Clark]

You pass the bag around?

Yup. One bag per team. It's a common GUE thing to give stuff to the least busy person to make whatever task you are doing very easy.

I do quite a bit of support diving and the easiest dives are the ones where people are happy to give, and most importantly accept, assistance at every opportunity. Sure, you could do it without sharing the load with someone else, but it's faster and safer not to.

In the bag example, you lose the tension feedback by giving away the spool, but keep/gain a visual reference and have two hands free to do a robust gas switch. (which does need two hands if you follow procedure).

Steve

[Tim Digger]

Stick your finger in the hole like Witchieblackcat*

* don't do this!!!

I have had my buddy rapidly ascend due to a trapped glove and finger. He was fine just continued in his usual accident prone way.

[matt]

Interesting. I would normally expect one to put up a bag and the other to maintain depth as reference - then vice versa.

I am not familiar with sharing a bag, and don't see that as particularly useful since I would expect on a bag dive the skipper to be counting bags.

Personally whilst I think checking the switch good practice I find it simpler to put lean-left rich-right.

I digress, thanks for the explanation.

Matt.


Yup. One bag per team. It's a common GUE thing to give stuff to the least busy person to make whatever task you are doing very easy.

I do quite a bit of support diving and the easiest dives are the ones where people are happy to give, and most importantly accept, assistance at every opportunity. Sure, you could do it without sharing the load with someone else, but it's faster and safer not to.

In the bag example, you lose the tension feedback by giving away the spool, but keep/gain a visual reference and have two hands free to do a robust gas switch. (which does need two hands if you follow procedure).

Steve

[Mark Chase]

palm facing down, had slightly curved downwards, line goes up through middle two fingers. Another way is to make an "OK" around the line with the spool below.

Provided you're using a bog standard cheap as chips delrin spool it'll pay out then when the bag hits the surface the spool will start slowly dropping, so you can grab it.



As above

But the main thing your doing wrong is using a device designed for jumping gaps in caves for deploying a SMB ;)


ATB

Mark

[BTS]

You pass the bag around?

I've been to parties like that....

[Paulo]

I use the tips of my thumb and middle finger at the edge of the hole and have never ever had a problem

[Garf]

You pass the bag around?


two people start gas switching the other provides a buoyancy reference whilst putting up an SMB. First person to finish the gas switch gets given the bag so the 3rd person can gas switch. If they can't remain still enough to provide a solid buoyancy reference at the same tine as putting up a bag in midwater then they wouldn't have passed fundamentals never mind tech1

[Energy58]

As an emergency backup I carry a spool and one of the small oral inflate DSMBs. As with all kit I have a practice from time to time.

I'm having a problem with the spool once I release the DSMB and the spool starts to spin, or rather doesn't. I can't seem to hold the spool in a way that spins freely in thick gloves. If I have thumb and finger lightly across the holes then the edge of the spool catches my gloves and it doesnt spin. I've ended up just letting the spool go. It normally spins and rises about a metre as the DSMB goes up and then falls back into my hand. Unfortunatly last time I tried I didn't catch the spool and a) ended up having to pull up in 10m of line to get it back and b) almost caused my buddy to spit out his reg laughing. :)

I've had a look at a few videos but all these guys are not wearing gloves, which makes it easy.

What am I doing wrong?

Options I can think of are a) remove glove or b) carry a pencil to use as an axle.
I though about putting the double ender through the hole in the spool but it won't fit.

What do other people do?

I have a halcyon shiny stainless spool which has a nicely tapered large central "hole" you can hold between thumb and second finger even with gloves. I bought it after getting my finger stuck in a cheapo delrin one.

[JPTaylor]

What do other people do?

Use a reel ;)

[witchieblackcat]

Stick your finger in the hole like Witchieblackcat*

* don't do this!!!

Buy the Apeks spool because they've got a smooth wide hole. They don't sell them where NickB lives so he's never seen one.

[notdeadyet]

I use the tips of my thumb and middle finger at the edge of the hole and have never ever had a problem
That's what I do and never had a problem either. Reels, spools, whatever, all work best with a bit of friction rather than just free spinning.

When it comes to longer stops I lock it off and dont always keep hold of it. It's drifting the same way I am.

Gas switches... how quaint that there are people still keeping old fashioned traditions alive...

[Hot Totty]

Buy the Apeks spool because they've got a smooth wide hole. They don't sell them where NickB lives so he's never seen one.

feck off its stupidly expensive for a spool :p

[gobfish1]

Stanley Chalk Line , for my fookup back up , 12 quid

[Paulo]

Gas switches... how quaint that there are people still keeping old fashioned traditions alive...

Isnt that the old fashioned term for adjusting your setpoint?

[Ken Hawk]

Isnt that the old fashioned term for adjusting your setpoint?

Christ, didn't take you long ;)

[matt]

Isnt that the old fashioned term for adjusting your setpoint?

No, dil-flush.

[Capt Morgan]

Christ, didn't take you long ;)

I have to spread the love :D

[Ken Hawk]

I have to spread the love :D

Ha Ha, he will be as bad as you soon ;)

[Paulo]

Ha Ha, he will be as bad as you soon ;)

Sorry Ken, I cannot associate with wasteful bubble blowers

[dwhitlow]

Sorry Ken, I cannot associate with wasteful bubble blowers
I find it sad they use as much helium in one dive as I need over a number of weeks and yet they only get short bottom times. This open circuit diving game surely has no future!

[nickb]

Buy the Apeks spool because they've got a smooth wide hole. They don't sell them where NickB lives so he's never seen one.Plenty of wide holes here. Not very smooth though!

[rivers]

Interesting. I would normally expect one to put up a bag and the other to maintain depth as reference - then vice versa.

I am not familiar with sharing a bag, and don't see that as particularly useful since I would expect on a bag dive the skipper to be counting bags.

Personally whilst I think checking the switch good practice I find it simpler to put lean-left rich-right.

I digress, thanks for the explanation.

Matt.

Which skippers insist every diver put up their own bag? Everyone I've dived with has said one bag per buddy pair/team. Or put your own up if diving solo.

[witchieblackcat]

Plenty of wide holes here. Not very smooth though!

Are you flirting with me? ;)

[Markymark75]

When it comes to longer stops I lock it off and dont always keep hold of it. It's drifting the same way I am.
.

Sometimes I find the wind and tide aren't in the same direction. I'd imagine you'd look an idiot chasing a spool (and you'd have to as surely this is only a back up device for your "proper" reel).

[Markymark75]

Which skippers insist every diver put up their own bag? Everyone I've dived with has said one bag per buddy pair/team. Or put your own up if diving solo.

It's not uncommon on gas dives when you've returned to the lazy shot / deco station. That way the skipper knows where all his divers are. Might be different on GUE tech boats - but I wouldn't know about such things.

[rivers]

It's not uncommon on gas dives when you've returned to the lazy shot / deco station. That way the skipper knows where all his divers are. Might be different on GUE tech boats - but I wouldn't know about such things.

Neither would I. Only "tech boat" i've been on was the skindeep shuttle to the Salsette. It was one bag per team. but thanks for the info :)

[Markymark75]

If we're talking recreational rather than techies there's normally a hotchpotch of people who are inexperienced / nervous / under instruction, with a array of red and / or yellow bags. Then I'd expect to see 1 bag per team with possibly one pair coming back up the shot line as neither feels comfortable shooting a bag / controlling ascent rates.

[Paulo]

If we're talking recreational rather than techies there's normally a hotchpotch of people who are inexperienced / nervous / under instruction, with a array of red and / or yellow bags. Then I'd expect to see 1 bag per team with possibly one pair coming back up the shot line as neither feels comfortable shooting a bag / controlling ascent rates.

I am continuously amazed at the amounts of people that have not insignificant numbers of dives that cannot send up a bag yet carry one for tens of dives

[witchieblackcat]

Sometimes I find the wind and tide aren't in the same direction. I'd imagine you'd look an idiot chasing a spool (and you'd have to as surely this is only a back up device for your "proper" reel).

I'd imagine he checks it's not moving too much before letting it go.
In such circumstances (on long deco stops) I've practised buoyancy by spinning through 360 degrees to come back facing the DSMB.

[JPTaylor]

Which skippers insist every diver put up their own bag? Everyone I've dived with has said one bag per buddy pair/team. Or put your own up if diving solo.

All the boats operating from Brighton/Eastbourne, especially as we normally "bag off" even on so called "tech" dives (i.e. 60m stuff), same on Weymouth boats. I'd so it's the norm....

[Garf]

All the boats operating from Brighton/Eastbourne, especially as we normally "bag off" even on so called "tech" dives (i.e. 60m stuff), same on Weymouth boats. I'd so it's the norm....

Depends on what you do. I dive out of Weymouth a few times a year and have never had to put a bag up per person. Equally I've dived off channel diver in brighton a few times a few times and never had to do it. Our Eastbourne rib certainly never makes you do it. this is all less than 60 metre diving. The "norm" is not diving deeper than 60 metres, it's "shallow" diving, and I'd say the "norm" here is a bag per buddy pair.

That being said, there are however skippers that admit to only needing a bag per team when the boat is full of GUE divers and a bag per diver for everyone else, so who knows.

[JPTaylor]

Depends on what you do. I dive out of Weymouth a few times a year and have never had to put a bag up per person. Equally I've dived off channel diver in brighton a few times a few times and never had to do it. Our Eastbourne rib certainly never makes you do it. this is all less than 60 metre diving. The "norm" is not diving deeper than 60 metres, it's "shallow" diving, and I'd say the "norm" here is a bag per buddy pair.

That being said, there are however skippers that admit to only needing a bag per team when the boat is full of GUE divers and a bag per diver for everyone else, so who knows.

I didn't say the "norm" was 60m diving, I said even on deeper dives we bag off one bag per diver. In my experience it's one bag each, a unless it's back to the shot, makes life much easier for the skipper as they just count bags & know when to pull the shot (especially if some choose to come up the shot).

[Paulo]

It all comes down to the dive brief and the skippers wishes

[Garf]

I didn't say the "norm" was 60m diving, I said even on deeper dives we bag off one bag per diver. In my experience it's one bag each, a unless it's back to the shot, makes life much easier for the skipper as they just count bags & know when to pull the shot (especially if some choose to come up the shot).

As Paulo says, it's down to the skipper, but the norm on the boats we tend to use is one bag per team. That makes it easy for the skipper too. Four teams jump off, four bags on the surface. skippers treat different groups differently, so your norm and experience may be different than mine.

[Ron MacRae]

As Paulo says, it's down to the skipper, but the norm on the boats we tend to use is one bag per team. That makes it easy for the skipper too. Four teams jump off, four bags on the surface. skippers treat different groups differently, so your norm and experience may be different than mine.

I agree. I've never been asked to put up individual bags.

After a discussion with our TO, who thinks individual bags is safer, we're mulling over a change to our local procedures.

[edward]

I like to put my own bag up so I can clip off to the reel and have a snooze on my 6m stop :)

[Tel]

I asked a South Coast skipper what he preferred :)

Average boat of pairs (maybe less if mix of threes/solos etc.), skipper has 6 blobs up. If he
sees 7 he knows someone has seperated/their might be a problem.

Same situation with now 12 blobs up and the only indicator of seperation would be how close
the pairs of blobs are, much harder to guage and no instant indicator of problem.

[Paulo]

I asked a South Coast skipper what he preferred :)

Average boat of pairs (maybe less if mix of threes/solos etc.), skipper has 6 blobs up. If he
sees 7 he knows someone has seperated/their might be a problem.

Same situation with now 12 blobs up and the only indicator of seperation would be how close
the pairs of blobs are, much harder to guage and no instant indicator of problem.

For normal diving it is enough imho to have 1 per group. If running deco schedules then each may have different stops due to different gases or different algorithms etc so not everyone might be ascending to 6m at the same rate

[gobfish1]

I am continuously amazed at the amounts of people that have not insignificant numbers of dives that cannot send up a bag yet carry one for tens of dives

Im also amazed at the number of divers that would not be able to get their fat arse of the bottom withOUT using a bag and line to crank them self,s up .
Id sometime,s tell my lads no bags on this dive , keep them on the ball , Some dives git it in their heads that they wont be able to come up with out a bag and line , and see it as a big problem ,

its a aid for the skipper , not a crutch for divers ,

DSMB is v handy tho ,

[Garf]

Im also amazed at the number of divers that would not be able to get their fat arse of the bottom withOUT using a bag and line to crank them self,s up .
Id sometime,s tell my lads no bags on this dive , keep them on the ball , Some dives git it in their heads that they would be able to come up with out a bag and line ,

its a aid for the skipper , not a crutch for divers ,

It can be quite amusing when coaching people to go through an ascent from 30 metres with a minute stop at each one, asking them to keep to time. Let them do the first half with the bag and then take it off them. A significant number of people go to pieces and lose track of time etc because they are struggling to maintain buoyancy control.

[Tel]

For normal diving it is enough imho to have 1 per group. If running deco schedules then each may have different stops due to different gases or different algorithms etc so not everyone might be ascending to 6m at the same rate

True, but it's easily managed.

One who has the deepest/most deco has the reel, others stay higher either on the line
or using it as a point of reference. If that changes hand the reel over.

[Paulo]

True, but it's easily managed.

One who has the deepest/most deco has the reel, others stay higher either on the line
or using it as a point of reference. If that changes hand the reel over.

Yes. Good point well made

[Jen - Winged Blob]

Ability with a DSMB can also depend on what sort of sites someone has dived most regularly. I've had a BSAC Advanced, 1000-dive yadi-yadi buddy who loved metal and had therefore ascended up the shot for most of his UK dives. Took him off to my own familiar territory of Farnes and St Abbs scenics and was truly astonished at his ineptitude with a blob.

(Mind, with my navigational skills it's just as well that I can use a DSMB in case I can't find the shot again! ;))

[rivers]

For normal diving it is enough imho to have 1 per group. If running deco schedules then each may have different stops due to different gases or different algorithms etc so not everyone might be ascending to 6m at the same rate

Or you decide on gases and deco schedule before the dive and make it a hell of a lot easier. but to each their own

[Garf]

True, but it's easily managed.

One who has the deepest/most deco has the reel, others stay higher either on the line
or using it as a point of reference. If that changes hand the reel over.

If they use the same gas and deco it's even easier to manage because they are at the same depth all the way through the ascent. Handy in an out of gas too ;)

[Paulo]

Or you decide on gases and deco schedule before the dive and make it a hell of a lot easier. but to each their own

Indeed each to their own ;)

[Tel]

If they use the same gas and deco it's even easier to manage because they are at the same depth all the way through the ascent. Handy in an out of gas too ;)


Well yes in an ideal world, but this is not an ideal world. Just takes one blown out dive
for divers to end up with the wrong gas for the next dive.

[Baron015]

I've had mixture. Most of the time skipper says one bag per person. This is Channel Diver, Sea Breeze, Dive 125, Skin Deeper, Top Gun. Other times Skipper asks what we want to do - as long as everyone does the same. Usual response is "one bag per diver please". Most diving 50m+ though with long drift deco hangs on the bag, and with plenty of solo divers so probably not the norm ?

I'm sure 20-30m single tank dives where everyone goes in with a buddy then one bag per pair is fine.

At least with one per diver everyone gets a lot of practice with the bag having to deploy bag every time they go diving.

[Garf]

Well yes in an ideal world, but this is not an ideal world. Just takes one blown out dive
for divers to end up with the wrong gas for the next dive.

Only if they use a different gas for every dive. I do all my recreational diving on the same gas. One dive gets blown out, the gas is just as valid for the next dive. My buddies are in the same place, so getting blown out is a non-issue from a gas perspective.

I use a different gas for technical diving, but that's in a different twinset - like most mix divers - as I don't want to spunk a twinset full of mix on a shallow dive.

Doesn't need to be "an ideal world" just thought through a little. The situation you describe as an ideal world has been a reality for me for a decade, and I am by no means alone. It's not even a GUE thing. Eastbourne BSAC very very rarely has divers seperate on a line. Having failed to plan gas as a buddy pair is a shit excuse for allowing branch members to start solo diving.

Doesn't need to be an "ideal world" just planned a little more thoughtfully in advance.

[Ron MacRae]

For normal diving it is enough imho to have 1 per group. If running deco schedules then each may have different stops due to different gases or different algorithms etc so not everyone might be ascending to 6m at the same rate

Person who wants to be lower takes the reel/spool.
Person who wants to be higher goes up the line to where he/she wants to stop.

[Tel]

Only if they use a different gas for every dive. I do all my recreational diving on the same gas. One dive gets blown out, the gas is just as valid for the next dive. My buddies are in the same place, so getting blown out is a non-issue from a gas perspective.

I use a different gas for technical diving, but that's in a different twinset - like most mix divers - as I don't want to spunk a twinset full of mix on a shallow dive.

Doesn't need to be "an ideal world" just thought through a little. The situation you describe as an ideal world has been a reality for me for a decade, and I am by no means alone. It's not even a GUE thing. Eastbourne BSAC very very rarely has divers seperate on a line. Having failed to plan gas as a buddy pair is a shit excuse for allowing branch members to start solo diving.

Doesn't need to be an "ideal world" just planned a little more thoughtfully in advance.


Ideal World vs Real World


It's easy to come up with an ideal world solution, but that only works in an ideal world.
In the real world the diver can't afford two twinsets and his buddy can't make the next
trip so that leaves him with a different buddy who has different gas.

At this point in the ideal world the awnser would be to say throw away the gas and
match the buddy, but real world says he can't afford to do that.

The guy WILL go diving anyway (we don't know if this buddy pair are battle-hardened
solo divers anyway), so ideal world's choice is to ignore, while real world comes up
with the safest protocol to match deco as much as possible and to mitigate that further
by staying within sight on the same line etc.


I can fully understand the logic that says match gas and dive with same etc. and agree
that's the ideal, but divers WILL be mismatched at times, so need to deal with it.

[Garf]

Ideal World vs Real World


that's my point. I dive in the real world Terry.



It's easy to come up with an ideal world solution, but that only works in an ideal world.
In the real world the diver can't afford two twinsets and his buddy can't make the next
trip so that leaves him with a different buddy who has different gas.


Any active trimix diver doing more than a couple of dives a year will have two twinsets. Take a straw poll of the active mix divers on here if you doubt that. If they can afford the gas then the second twinset to offset having to blow down the cylinders is a no brainer. Again, this is the real world of OC trimix diving.



At this point in the ideal world the awnser would be to say throw away the gas and
match the buddy, but real world says he can't afford to do that.


which is why so many active mix divers end up with multiple twinsets. Real world, terry.



I can fully understand the logic that says match gas and dive with same etc. and agree
that's the ideal, but divers WILL be mismatched at times, so need to deal with it.

Once again, back in the real world I have not had mismatched gas with another diver for a decade. you are right about one thing though. It's easy. In GUE obviously it's easier for people with only a single twinset anyway as we can just make a single post on facebook and be inundated with offers to borrow one that we know will be full of the gas we need and will be set up the way we want it.

I guess it's the difference between assuming it will happen and planning for it, and just making sure it doesn't happen in the first place. GUE's approach is simple - buddy pairs stay together, and we plan around that. I'm actually suprised that BSAC's position is different.

[matt]

Plenty of wide holes here. Not very smooth though!

And that's just the local ladies...

[matt]

Which skippers insist every diver put up their own bag? Everyone I've dived with has said one bag per buddy pair/team. Or put your own up if diving solo.

Insist is too strong.

The better ones, would be my reply.

[Garf]

Insist is too strong.

The better ones, would be my reply.

That's pretty insulting to some of the best skippers in the country.

[Tel]

that's my point. I dive in the real world Terry.

Any active trimix diver doing more than a couple of dives a year will have two twinsets. Take a straw poll of the active mix divers on here if you doubt that. If they can afford the gas then the second twinset to offset having to blow down the cylinders is a no brainer. Again, this is the real world of OC trimix diving.

which is why so many active mix divers end up with multiple twinsets. Real world, terry.

Once again, back in the real world I have not had mismatched gas with another diver for a decade. you are right about one thing though. It's easy. In GUE obviously it's easier for people with only a single twinset anyway as we can just make a single post on facebook and be inundated with offers to borrow one that we know will be full of the gas we need and will be set up the way we want it.

I guess it's the difference between assuming it will happen and planning for it, and just making sure it doesn't happen in the first place. GUE's approach is simple - buddy pairs stay together, and we plan around that. I'm actually suprised that BSAC's position is different.




No you really don't, you dive in your version of an ideal world, in the real world there are
divers that do more than a couple of mix dves per year and still only own a single twinset.

That'e the difference between ideal and real, one is what we'd like, the other is what actually
happens.

Sure you can quote what you, your agency and a bunch of mates might do, but that doesnt
mean the same applies to the next door boat that has a bunch of guys from all over, some
of whom have not even met before today.

Some divers will have mismatched gas and they can be as every bit as good at planning as
you, it's just that circumstances has put them there and the choice is use what you have or
don't dive.

Sure if the gas is so far apart don't dive might be the right option, but if the difference is
managable (no different than the difference between brands of computers) then why not?


TBH I think this is basic difference in philosophy, so we won't agree.

[dwhitlow]

No you really don't, you dive in your version of an ideal world, in the real world there are
divers that do more than a couple of mix dves per year and still only own a single twinset.

That'e the difference between ideal and real, one is what we'd like, the other is what actually happens.

I have to agree with Garf on this as my real world used to house 3 twinsets. The 16s were filled with 18/45 and I had 12s of 21/35 and nitrox. If things looked uncertain then there might be a spare set in the car so I could swap if the dive plan changed. Why would anyone do different?

[Becky9]

I have to agree with Garf on this as my real world used to house 3 twinsets. The 16s were filled with 18/45 and I had 12s of 21/35 and nitrox. If things looked uncertain then there might be a spare set in the car so I could swap if the dive plan changed. Why would anyone do different?


Same here x

[Paulo]

Why would anyone do different?

Because they had the sense to realise that OC trimix is not ideal. In terms of gas logistics and in terms of response time in the event of a problem

[rivers]

Once again, back in the real world I have not had mismatched gas with another diver for a decade. you are right about one thing though. It's easy. In GUE obviously it's easier for people with only a single twinset anyway as we can just make a single post on facebook and be inundated with offers to borrow one that we know will be full of the gas we need and will be set up the way we want it.
.

I only own one twinset, due to available space in my house. I had a weekend back a couple of months ago where I needed a second twinset as mine had mix in it. A post on GUE-UK facebook group had an offer a twinset loan for the weekend less than 5 minutes later. It works

[Woz]

I guess it's the difference between assuming it will happen and planning for it, and just making sure it doesn't happen in the first place. GUE's approach is simple - buddy pairs stay together, and we plan around that. I'm actually suprised that BSAC's position is different.

It isn't.

[dwhitlow]

I've had mixture. Most of the time skipper says one bag per person. This is Channel Diver, Sea Breeze, Dive 125, Skin Deeper, Top Gun. Other times Skipper asks what we want to do - as long as everyone does the same. Usual response is "one bag per diver please". Most diving 50m+ though with long drift deco hangs on the bag, and with plenty of solo divers so probably not the norm ?

I'm sure 20-30m single tank dives where everyone goes in with a buddy then one bag per pair is fine.

At least with one per diver everyone gets a lot of practice with the bag having to deploy bag every time they go diving.
Most skippers on deep stuff like to count bags, especially with lots of CCR divers and solo divers so no bubbles to spot although club diving is often a bag per pair/group. I guess it sometimes comes down to personal and skipper preferences. On our club (not BSAC) boat the rule is a bag per person.

I prefer having my own SMB so I can hang my clawed friends from the reel and the blob sits vertical and visible.. The last dive I did I had 5kg of crabs and the extra weight would have been annoying on the ascent.

[Tel]

I have to agree with Garf on this as my real world used to house 3 twinsets. The 16s were filled with 18/45 and I had 12s of 21/35 and nitrox. If things looked uncertain then there might be a spare set in the car so I could swap if the dive plan changed. Why would anyone do different?


Yes because so many divers have twin 16's, let alone 3 twinsets :rolleyes:

[PhilPage]

No you really don't, you dive in your version of an ideal world, in the real world there are
divers that do more than a couple of mix dves per year and still only own a single twinset.
Erm - I just bought a 2nd set for the exact reason as Dave & Garf.

It's not that much more expensive to get a 2nd-hand set of 10s or 12s than a mix fill in the 15s...

[Steve Clark]

Yes because so many divers have twin 16's, let alone 3 twinsets :rolleyes:

I don't know any T1(+) divers that own less than 2 twinsets. It's kinda essential for OC mix diving in the UK.

Just like you need to buy bailout tins for an RB, it goes with the territory.

(I'm all for RB for sea dives deeper than 60m, but for shallower stuff and for less than 3 hours in a cave you can't beat OC for economics or simplicity)

Steve

[Tel]

Erm - I just bought a 2nd set for the exact reason as Dave & Garf.

It's not that much more expensive to get a 2nd-hand set of 10s or 12s than a mix fill in the 15s...


Which means for a time (like many divers) you had just the one twinset and apparenty
that makes you inept at gas managment :)

[Tel]

I don't know any T1(+) divers that own less than 2 twinsets. It's kinda essential for OC mix diving in the UK.

Just like you need to buy bailout tins for an RB, it goes with the territory.

(I'm all for RB for sea dives deeper than 60m, but for shallower stuff and for less than 3 hours in a cave you can't beat OC for economics or simplicity)

Steve


Who said anything about T1?

Single twinset diver, that does a dozen mix dives over the summer.
You know him, you've probably dived with him seeing as it's one of the averages in
the demographic.

I've got more than one set and access to loads more, but still see divers with just
the one. Why are these guys seen as second-class citizens and inept at gas management
simply because they don't have or can't afford a second twinset.

[Becky9]

Which means for a time (like many divers) you had just the one twinset and apparenty
that makes you inept at gas managment :)

Do you do this for kicks Tel? How fucking ridiculous this is, is beyond belief.

[Tel]

Do you do this for kicks Tel? How fucking ridiculous this is, is beyond belief.

No I just get pi**ed off with the elitist BS.

[matt]

That's pretty insulting to some of the best skippers in the country.

I've never come across a skipper who has insisted on one bag per dive pair/team/group. Personally I'd always come up the shot and use a bar/trapeze for gas diving.

Scooby diving it doesn't really matter what you do.

[Becky9]

No I just get pi**ed off with the elitist BS.

Fucking huge chip on your shoulder more like Tel, that resorts to clutching at straws when the argument goes against you.

[matt]

I found it cheaper to move to a rebreather - saved buying a bigger car, and a bigger house to park it at.

[Ron MacRae]

Fucking huge chip on your shoulder more like Tel, that resorts to clutching at straws when the argument goes against you.

To be fair I don't think either 'side' lost the argument. It just shows there is more than one view of what the 'real' world is.

Garf lives in a world where many people have multiple twinsets.
Tel lives in a world where most people don't.

In my BSAC club I only know of 1 person with 2 twinsets and the 2nd one used to belong to his wife until she stopped diving.
I'm toying with the idea of a second twinset not because of multiple mixes but because it can be hard to get a refill for Sunday if the boat gets in late on Saturday.

Arguments getting silly and childish seems to be an internet thing?
Both the protaganists are quite sensible in real life. :)

[gobfish1]

I used to dive the wrong gas all the time , never missed a dive 0m to 70m :clap:

now I have a breather and still dive the wrong gas but now its good to 120m lol

[Paulo]

I used to dive the wrong gas all the time , never missed a dive 0m to 70m :clap:

That is because you just used air no matter what the depth :D

[Ian_6301]

Ideal World vs Real World


It's easy to come up with an ideal world solution, but that only works in an ideal world.
In the real world the diver can't afford two twinsets and his buddy can't make the next
trip so that leaves him with a different buddy who has different gas.

At this point in the ideal world the awnser would be to say throw away the gas and
match the buddy, but real world says he can't afford to do that.

The guy WILL go diving anyway (we don't know if this buddy pair are battle-hardened
solo divers anyway), so ideal world's choice is to ignore, while real world comes up
with the safest protocol to match deco as much as possible and to mitigate that further
by staying within sight on the same line etc.


I can fully understand the logic that says match gas and dive with same etc. and agree
that's the ideal, but divers WILL be mismatched at times, so need to deal with it.

Seriously?

In the vanishingly unlikely circumstances that you end up with different gas to your buddy (for which you should be horsewhipped), then you should STILL be able to plan a dive where both divers follow the same profile and come home safely. If not, you should not do the dive.

Anything else is solo diving in formation.

For the record, I own two twinsets and a trio of stages, for this very reason.

If you thought about it for long enough, you'd end up with standard gasses too...

[gobfish1]

That is because you just used air no matter what the depth :D


Yes
id only get the 14/33 and the pony out if I was doing something Dangerous lol got to keep the ppo2 down


and to keep it on track id take my DSMB :y:

[BTS]

WTF has any of this got to do with a bag on a bobbin?

[Becky9]

To be fair I don't think either 'side' lost the argument. It just shows there is more than one view of what the 'real' world is.

Garf lives in a world where many people have multiple twinsets.
Tel lives in a world where most people don't.

In my BSAC club I only know of 1 person with 2 twinsets and the 2nd one used to belong to his wife until she stopped diving.
I'm toying with the idea of a second twinset not because of multiple mixes but because it can be hard to get a refill for Sunday if the boat gets in late on Saturday.

Arguments getting silly and childish seems to be an internet thing?
Both the protaganists are quite sensible in real life. :)

but this wasn't about just multiple twinset ownership, it was about regular trimix divers that own more than one twinset. I know shed loads of people of that don't own more than one twinset, are they trimix divers? Are they regular trimix divers? No.

It just occurs to me that anything Tel doesn't like is elitist BS even when its bsac divers who are telling him differently x

[Tel]

but this wasn't about just multiple twinset ownership, it was about regular trimix divers that own more than one twinset. I know shed loads of people of that don't own more than one twinset, are they trimix divers? Are they regular trimix divers? No.

It just occurs to me that anything Tel doesn't like is elitist BS even when its bsac divers who are telling him differently x


Did you actually read it !!!!!!

This is NOT about regular trimix divers that own more than one twinset,
for them (and the entire point of multiples) is that gas management/matching is easy.

This is about those that still do a summer of trimix with just the one twinset who
might end up with the wrong mix cause of a blowout etc.

These guys it seems are unable to manage different mixes in a buddy pair or come
up with a workable protocol.

Apparently the act of buying another twinset or two makes me a guru and having a
single makes me an inept second-class citizen that should be horsewipped.


That's what I call BS and it makes no difference what the source, it's still BS.

[Ian_6301]

Did you actually read it !!!!!!

This is NOT about regular trimix divers that own more than one twinset,
for them (and the entire point of multiples) is that gas management/matching is easy.

This is about those that still do a summer of trimix with just the one twinset who
might end up with the wrong mix cause of a blowout etc.

These guys it seems are unable to manage different mixes in a buddy pair or come
up with a workable protocol.

Apparently the act of buying another twinset or two makes me a guru and having a
single makes me an inept second-class citizen that should be horsewipped.


That's what I call BS and it makes no difference what the source, it's still BS.

Tel,

Let's wind back, shall we?

You made a post which inferred that it was OK / necessary / standard for divers in a team / pair to separate to perform their deco, due to following different brands of deco voodoo and/or using different gasses.

I have three issues with this:

1. No, it isn't OK to do different stops at different depths. You plan the dive and dive the plan. If your computers can't agree or if your gasses vary, you cook up a hybrid profile that is the most conservative. That is straight out of the core training programme, is it not? From the bit where you introduce computers, then say that if one diver is using tables, you stick to whichever is the more conservative profile...

2. No, it isn't OK to dive with different Voodoo. You agree before you go in, you plan the dive and you dive the plan. This is, again, basic BSAC doctrine.

3. No, it isn't OK to use different gasses, in my opinion. ...For all of the reasons we've been through... Although this does happen sometimes, see below.

Your point, I think, relates to No 3 in that list. You believe that it's OK to dive dissimilar gasses. Further, you cite it as the norm / standard practice.

I'm happy to concede that from time to time, I do dive with a BSAC buddy who rolls the chicken bones before every dice to determine the nitrox mix he's going to use. We never do more than 30m, so I always use EAN32. He forgets to reset his computer, he ends up with a mix that's too hot for the planned dive, ends up needing to do more deco and generally is a pain in the arse, but he's my best mate, so I just shake my head and throw him off the boat. We agree that whichever of us has the weaker mix runs the deco (if indeed we need to do any). We are, however, standardised on EAN50 deco gas.

Is it normal for me? No. Do I keep pestering him to switch to a standard EAN32? You bet your arse I do! Is is acceptable? Well, kinda. Matt and I have dived together from day 1 and we are pretty good as a team. My assessment is that for recreational (and minor deco) dives, the additional risk is acceptable. But we do our stops together.

Would I trust him to do mix dives with over 30 mins of deco? No. Doing an extra couple of minutes at 6m because someone ran an EAN27 vs my EAN32 is amusing - I get to make V signs at him and fine him cakes. Coughing up for boat fees and posh gas, only to have my bottom time drastically reduced and/or to find we have an extra 15 mins of deco, which has eroded a fair chunk of the spare gas margin? That's not at all cool.

In the case that (I think?) we were discussing, which was mix dives, then my personal outlook is that no, different gasses amongst buddy pairs / teams are unacceptable. It's another set of holes in the swiss cheese model that are lining up to bite you in the arse. Entering the water with the wrong gas just because someone is too stingy to either drop a fill of the wrong gas, or to buy a second twinset is a disproportionate increase in risk to the cost saving, from where I'm sitting. But your mileage may (and does seem to) vary. I feel very strongly about this one, not based solely on my agency affiliation, but on previous bad experiences / near misses where this sort of mistake has brought us close to tragedy. So yes, although I use the phrase somewhat tongue in cheek, horse whipping may be a little strong, but I would certainly prefer to forfeit my boat fee and sit a dive out rather than do a mix dive with a buddy who brought the wrong gas.

BSAC frown on two out of three of the things you think are OK and while the third is obviously an emotive point, I'm fairly sure that if you consult the holy scriptures, you can find something that advises against it...

[Paulo]

What if one diver is diving CCR and the other is diving OC? They will have different deco obligations for the same dive.

[Woz]

What if one diver is diving CCR and the other is diving OC? They will have different deco obligations for the same dive.

You do the deco profile of the OC diver and get a waterproof book out for the RB diver.

There seems to be an awful lot of fuss over bugger all here. I've done plenty of deco diving with divers on "standard gases" and other ones on rebreathers. We just got on with it in a sensible manner and had a Jolly Nice Time. Then at the end of it, sent up a DSMB on a spool and didn't feel the need to get all arsey about it on the Internet.

Sometimes, I even use 2 hands to send the bag up. I know. Controversial.

[Garf]

What if one diver is diving CCR and the other is diving OC? They will have different deco obligations for the same dive.

So? Their diver follows the oc diver as they will be the limiting factor. And makes a mental note that he needs to find a buddy with a breather :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Woz]

So? Their diver follows the oc diver as they will be the limiting factor. And makes a mental note that he needs to find a buddy with a breather :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It's not difficult is it? The trickiest part is deciding what song to sing on deco. I find on a mix dive, the Lion Sleeps Tonight works well. The main issue is who does the Uwumbaways and who does the melody. Generally the RB diver is better doing the Uwumbaways as the the OC diver can easily switch to mix for a bit of added treble.

[Ron MacRae]

3. No, it isn't OK to use different gasses, in my opinion. ...For all of the reasons we've been through... Although this does happen sometimes, see below.



Happens all the time. I'd say I dive more often with someone on a different OC mix than I do with one on the same mix. It annoys the hell out of me but in the end it's dive with them or don't dive.

As DO I send out an email a week before the dive saying we're diving X and the nitrox %age is Y.
Still get people turning up with air or whatever they happen to have with them at the time.

[nickb]

No I just get pi**ed off with the elitist BS.
You could always fuck off to somewhere less elitist - like the BallSACk forum

[Becky9]

Did you actually read it !!!!!!


I did Tel, It appears you didn't.



This is NOT about regular trimix divers that own more than one twinset,
for them (and the entire point of multiples) is that gas management/matching is easy.

This is about those that still do a summer of trimix with just the one twinset who
might end up with the wrong mix cause of a blowout etc.

These guys it seems are unable to manage different mixes in a buddy pair or come
up with a workable protocol.



Apparently the act of buying another twinset or two makes me a guru and having a
single makes me an inept second-class citizen that should be horsewipped.


No Tel that's all in your mind. Owning a second twinset means you don't get into a situation where you have to use expensive gases inappropriate to dive you want to do.
Rather than the woah is me its only for Rich people that have second twinsets, its actually for the poor fuckers who can't afford to waste expensive gas on dives that don't require it.






That's what I call BS and it makes no difference what the source, it's still BS.

You call a lot of things Elitist BS you don't agree with Tel.

[gobfish1]

Can,nt see the big deal about all the gas / deco bollox if your talking less than 50m your all doing the same fooking stop,s all about 12m for the most part and the only dif is how long at 6m . your just arsing about with all the midwater bollox stops ,

im board now ,

whats this ballsack forum may give it a try , do they have divers posting or is it all dick swinging

[Tel]

I did Tel, It appears you didn't.

Yeah I did




No Tel that's all in your mind. Owning a second twinset means you don't get into a situation where you have to use expensive gases inappropriate to dive you want to do.
Rather than the woah is me its only for Rich people that have second twinsets, its actually for the poor fuckers who can't afford to waste expensive gas on dives that don't require it.



I can fully appreciate that those doing a lot of mix diving and especially those teaching like
Garf will have/need a lot of twinsets, that makes perfect sense no argument.

I can also fully appreciate that there is a point especially in the UK where the frequency of
dives and the odd blow-out means that a second twinset is viable, even if that's at break-even,
again no argument.


What I can't appreciate is that someone who has NOT reached the frequency of dives on mix
to justify a second twinset now has to throw away the gas and makes thing worse because
he cant match up with another guy after a blown-out dive.

Whats the end result? Diver get's pi**ed off with wasting gas and reverts back to Nx using a
weak mix or worse doing deep air!!!!

Why? Because on the odd dive once a year a diver and his buddy he trusts run uneven deco
that might be a few mts apart on the same line.


I don't have any problems with access to multiple twinsets, nor can I remember ever having
a different deco schedule than my buddy, but that doesnt mean I havnt seen it happen or can't
appreciate why some divers do it.




You call a lot of things Elitist BS you don't agree with Tel.

Only when it excludes or discourages others, anyway repeating myself now and as Gobfish is
bored, as they say i'm out :p

[matt]

Can,nt see the big deal about all the gas / deco bollox if your talking less than 50m your all doing the same fooking stop,s all about 12m for the most part and the only dif is how long at 6m . your just arsing about with all the midwater bollox stops ,

im board now ,

whats this ballsack forum may give it a try , do they have divers posting or is it all dick swinging

10/50 and O2 unless it's deep, then 6/72 for me.

SP=1.3 all the way unless it's long, then 1.5.

Shallow stuff I'm using GF 90/95, deep 60/80.

I haven't done fixed stop-depths since I started following the man, lol.

Matt.

[notdeadyet]

Are you talking 60m+ mix diving or what used to be air depth mix diving? If it's the former then I cant see anyone with any sense spunking a decent mix to fanny around at 35m.

I suspect the majority of people still diving oc mix are doing it <60m where the pain isnt that bad. In that case you can maybe get away with pissing gas up the wall. Or not.

When I dived oc I had about 2 twinsets to cope with the diving I was doing. It cost less than spunking helium. Hardly elitist. People lay out a grand on a torch and think nothing of it. 2 or 300 quid to avoid canning a dive isnt exactly walking round with a tshirt reading "fuck the poor".

[Iain Smith]

Are you talking 60m+ mix diving or what used to be air depth mix diving?

We used to perform surgery without anaesthesia as well...

(That said, I agree with the rest of your post!)

Iain

[dwhitlow]

Are you talking 60m+ mix diving or what used to be air depth mix diving? If it's the former then I cant see anyone with any sense spunking a decent mix to fanny around at 35m.

I suspect the majority of people still diving oc mix are doing it <60m where the pain isnt that bad. In that case you can maybe get away with pissing gas up the wall. Or not.

When I dived oc I had about 2 twinsets to cope with the diving I was doing. It cost less than spunking helium. Hardly elitist. People lay out a grand on a torch and think nothing of it. 2 or 300 quid to avoid canning a dive isnt exactly walking round with a tshirt reading "fuck the poor".
In any case, a second hand twinset with new test can be bought for about £250 and sells for much the same money. Therefore the real cost of ownership is merely the servicing costs and these are quickly recovered against the cost of dumping 21/35 planned for the Moldavia on diving the City of Waterford.

[Tim Digger]

We used to perform surgery without anaesthesia as well...

(That said, I agree with the rest of your post!)

Iain
Yes but not as WELL as with it. The screams must be off putting!

[Paulo]

Yes but not as WELL as with it. The screams must be off putting!

Pffft!

Everyone knows doctors do not listen to their patients

[dwhitlow]

Pffft!

Everyone knows doctors do not listen to their patients

Just like everyone knows patients do not listen to their doctors

[notdeadyet]

We used to perform surgery without anaesthesia as well...

(That said, I agree with the rest of your post!)

Iain

I don't know what the fashionable term is for it these days. Recreational trimix, normoxic trimix, isn't it about 400 quid per atmosphere now to get to 60m? When I did my gas training they gave you one ticket and assumed you'd be responsible enough to know where you should be using it and which gases to choose. I wouldn't want anyone getting pissy and making accusations of elitism if I called sub 60m shallow diving :D


Pffft!

Everyone knows doctors do not listen to their patients

Except psychiatrists. They have to listen so they can read back the last thing the patient says as a question.

[BTS]

whats this ballsack forum may give it a try , do they have divers posting or is it all dick swinging

Mainly T bagging and rimming I believe

[gobfish1]

Mainly T bagging and rimming I believe

right up my alley , :blush:

[Paulo]

right up my alley , :blush:

I am sure that could be arranged too

[Spirit of Guernsey]

We used to perform surgery without anaesthesia as well...

Iain

My dentist still does.

[dwhitlow]

My dentist still does.
that is cos you are cheap and won't pay for it!

[Elvis]

I've had mixture. Most of the time skipper says one bag per person. This is Channel Diver, Sea Breeze, Dive 125, Skin Deeper, Top Gun.

That's weird at least 2 of those boats have said one bag per pair/team to me, seems they are saying different things to different people.

[dwhitlow]

That's weird at least 2 of those boats have said one bag per pair/team to me, seems they are saying different things to different people.

Maybe they vary the requirement for different kit and dive profiles. Or perhaps they didn't want to stress you ;)

[Buzz]

Back on DSMBs for a quick moment. My experience is almost always that the skipper is happy for 1 bag per team. That includes the Brighton and Eastbourne boats people have mentioned.

Occasionally I've been asked for 1 per diver. In this case we send one bag up and then send the other(s) up the same string - again letting the skipper know beforehand that this is what we plan to do. This reduces the amount of string in the water and keeps things simple

[Baron015]

Back on DSMBs for a quick moment. My experience is almost always that the skipper is happy for 1 bag per team. That includes the Brighton and Eastbourne boats people have mentioned.

Occasionally I've been asked for 1 per diver. In this case we send one bag up and then send the other(s) up the same string - again letting the skipper know beforehand that this is what we plan to do. This reduces the amount of string in the water and keeps things simple

I know everyone is different, but sending two bags up one string sounds more complex than each diver putting up own bag.

With somewhere between 50-100 mins deco to do as the norm during summer months, I quite like my own bag.

I did practice putting lots of bags up the same string at Vobster once, I did 9 bags before I ran out of bags. Why I have that many I will never know, it took that many before I built up a set of 3 that I am really happy with. I know the OP asked about reels, but if we got onto different bags then we could have a real chin-wag !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dwhitlow]

I know everyone is different, but sending two bags up one string sounds more complex than each diver putting up own bag.


Although it does reduce the risk of the lines crossing and playing the game of line unravelling in the last 6m.

[JPTaylor]

Although it does reduce the risk of the lines crossing and playing the game of line unravelling in the last 6m.

Swim well away from you buddy when you deploy, other end of the wreck works for me!!

[mark weaver]

I am sure this thread started when somebodys asked about deploying an smb with a spool. Where did it all go so wrong.

[Ron MacRae]

I am sure this thread started when somebodys asked about deploying an smb with a spool. Where did it all go so wrong.
We did it on the Internet.

[dwhitlow]

I am sure this thread started when somebodys asked about deploying an smb with a spool. Where did it all go so wrong.

Right at the start as the thread was started in the rebreather section of TDF :)

(why is 'somebody' spelt 'somebodys'? Should 'smb' be 'DSMB' and should the last character be a question mark like this? :) )

[Spirit of Guernsey]

Right at the start as the thread was started in the rebreather section of TDF :)

(why is 'somebody' spelt 'somebodys'? Should 'smb' be 'DSMB' and should the last character be a question mark like this? :) )

..........or maybe dSMB

:P:

[jeff1955]

..........or maybe dSMB

:P:

Or maybe "safety sausage" ��

[dwhitlow]

..........or maybe dSMB

:P:
Hmm, as the title refers to DSMB deployment I feel I was correct :P:

Also, BSAC lesson SO4 is "Compass Navigation and DSMB Deployment" :)

[mark weaver]

Right at the start as the thread was started in the rebreather section of TDF :)

(why is 'somebody' spelt 'somebodys'? Should 'smb' be 'DSMB' and should the last character be a question mark like this? :) )

True, i did not notice this was in the rebreather forum until after i posted. Not sure why i even looked in here as i do not have a rebreather, just one twinset that could be full of either trimix, nitrox or air depending on what dive i intend to be doing.

why is 'somebody' spelt 'somebodys' - typo
Should 'smb' be 'DSMB' - probably
should the last character be a question mark like this? - yes just being lazy, no excuse.

Anything else?

[Paulo]

Hmm, as the title refers to DSMB deployment I feel I was correct :P:

Also, BSAC lesson SO4 is "Compass Navigation and DSMB Deployment" :)

Yes and BSAC have not been in the spot light at all recently for getting things monumentally wrong

[dwhitlow]

Yes and BSAC have not been in the spot light at all recently for getting things monumentally wrong

Irrelevant and not recent as the DTP has been about for many years

[Spirit of Guernsey]

Are we peaking too soon, it is only Monday?

[matt]

Anything else?

Yes. It was decided you are not a proper diver because you only have one twinset.

[mark weaver]

Yes. It was decided you are not a proper diver because you only have one twinset.

I thought that might be the case. Hence my decision to give you that little bit of ammunition :mm:

[BTS]

Yes. It was decided you are not a proper diver because you only have one twinset.

To be a proper proper diver you must own at least one ali 40 and wonder why....

[dwhitlow]

To be a proper proper diver you must own at least one ali 40 and wonder why....

Rubbish! The al40 is the ideal great bailout for the scallop gathers as it is more than enough gas to get home and provides gas for lift bags.

If you have a spare then I can always use another :)

[Paulo]

i got an ali 40 2 weeks ago. I have used it for about 7 or 8 dives now and I must say that it is barely noticeable that it is there. With almost 1200L of gas is more than enough for <40m no deco dives IMHO

[Clare]

What kind of diver are you if you own two Ali 40s and do know why....

[Mark Chase]

What kind of diver are you if you own two Ali 40s and do know why....



GUE

and because they told you too ;)

ATB

Mark

[matt]

What kind of diver are you if you own two Ali 40s and do know why....

Mark beat me.