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Hot Totty
19-06-2015, 04:56 PM
So VMS have finally been accredited with CE approval for their new 'Red Head' sentinel - awesome, I'm seriously tempted, really am ;)

Jackdiver
19-06-2015, 05:01 PM
Good news!

I'm also tempted to upgrade...

;)

flyingfisheye
20-06-2015, 08:09 AM
I am tempted too, does any one know the price?

flyingfisheye
20-06-2015, 08:10 AM
Possibly the best ccr just got better?

matt
20-06-2015, 08:14 AM
Possibly the best ccr...

Really?

flyingfisheye
20-06-2015, 09:25 AM
Really?

I knew some one would bite, LOL.

With VMS on the case at least those of us who are still using them have a really good support company to go to. Nothing is to much trouble, just call up and they offer help advise etc. I hear that Glock has now turned to the Dark side with the purchase of a JJ. I hope that VMS produce a good travel frame now, still a shame it does not fit 3L cylinders still.

Regards

Nick

matt
20-06-2015, 01:25 PM
I knew some one would bite, LOL.

More a nibble. :-)


With VMS on the case at least those of us who are still using them have a really good support company to go to. Nothing is to much trouble, just call up and they offer help advise etc.

Got to be better than VR. That was utter-shite.


I hear that Glock has now turned to the Dark side with the purchase of a JJ. I hope that VMS produce a good travel frame now, still a shame it does not fit 3L cylinders still.

Does it still have the ridiculous pre-breath requirement and look like a fridge?

Matt.

flyingfisheye
20-06-2015, 02:13 PM
Does it still have the ridiculous pre-breath requirement and look like a fridge?

Matt.[/QUOTE]


It does have the Pre breath, but once you have done it once it will drop the time from 300 to 100 seconds , also if you don't do it and jump in water, it will just carry on and let you dive. The software has changed a-little so not as bad as before with 300 seconds all the time. Once the Temp stick has noticed a rise in Temperature of a couple of degrees, you will get a green. Funny mind that the built in Check list is not more popular. I saw some guys in the South China seas recently with a 2 page laminated check list, with it on the hand set of the Sentinel no danger of loosing it.

regards

Nick

matt
20-06-2015, 03:02 PM
Does it still have the ridiculous pre-breath requirement and look like a fridge?

Matt.


It does have the Pre breath, but once you have done it once it will drop the time from 300 to 100 seconds , also if you don't do it and jump in water, it will just carry on and let you dive. The software has changed a-little so not as bad as before with 300 seconds all the time. Once the Temp stick has noticed a rise in Temperature of a couple of degrees, you will get a green. Funny mind that the built in Check list is not more popular. I saw some guys in the South China seas recently with a 2 page laminated check list, with it on the hand set of the Sentinel no danger of loosing it.

regards

Nick

Sounds like an improvement. Personally I'd like my inspo to be more user-controllable - like being able to disable the CO2 sensor during the dive if I want. Enforced pre-breath would drive me nuts - I do a few mins before I jump with a new scrubber, then I do not bother.

Handset checklist is fine - but I now have a "check mushroom valves" during power-on. I won't ever do that before I jump, so totally pointless.

I assume it's still a fridge ;-)

Matt.

Rob Dobson
20-06-2015, 03:24 PM
Has there ever been any conclusive evidence to support the benefit of pre-breathing?

My CCR instructor was a medical doctor who was adamant that it was a chemical reaction that happened exactly the same way from the first breath; so beyond confirming loop integrity, there was no benefit to scrubber performance to be gained from pre-breathing.

Simon A
20-06-2015, 03:35 PM
All the data I've seen shows that the prebreathe does nothing for the scrubbing reaction, it's more about checking the unit settles down to a steady state and is injecting gas and maintaining setpoint

flyingfisheye
20-06-2015, 06:07 PM
Sounds like an improvement. Personally I'd like my inspo to be more user-controllable - like being able to disable the CO2 sensor during the dive if I want. Enforced pre-breath would drive me nuts - I do a few mins before I jump with a new scrubber, then I do not bother.

Handset checklist is fine - but I now have a "check mushroom valves" during power-on. I won't ever do that before I jump, so totally pointless.

I assume it's still a fridge ;-)

Matt.

Hi Matt.

yep is a fridge in full uk spec, even painted mine white to take away the guessing of what it is, in travel mode looks like a barrel of beer strapped to my back. LOL

one of the great features i think is you can turn off stuff, underwater. The battery of the Temp stick went flat and the one I bought was the wrong size so I just turned off the the Temp stick so no alarm during Dive. The CO2 sensor did the job of the temp stick, if you use it with low Dil or O2 pressure it will give an alarm. If your off board you can then turn the HP senders off and stop the alarm. Plus other stuff can be switched off, will let you select individual cells and turn off if wanted to. It will try and tell you if you jump in and have forgotten to turn on the O2 or the Dil as it monitors the HP pressure failing fast.

As far as the pre breath is concerned, you don't have to do it. The unit will count down the 300 seconds but does not know your breathing off it, in hot country the temp stick will respond straight away. If before a Dive it asks for another pre breath, just ignore it. let it count down the seconds or just jump in. It really is not a big deal.

The off board facility is really good I must say. both O2 and Dil plug in and forget. Was diving abroad once and they could only supply 90Bar o2 so used the 80% from the 11L bale out for the majority of the Dive and the O2 for the deco phase. Would be harder to do that on other units as would have to keep injecting all the time.

I think in truth its a great unit, but spoiled by poor support from VR.

Regards

Nick

matt
20-06-2015, 06:50 PM
Has there ever been any conclusive evidence to support the benefit of pre-breathing?

My CCR instructor was a medical doctor who was adamant that it was a chemical reaction that happened exactly the same way from the first breath; so beyond confirming loop integrity, there was no benefit to scrubber performance to be gained from pre-breathing.

Paul showed that a cold scrubber performs as well as a warm one.

Simon showed that even with a pre-breath divers may not spot elevated CO2.

For me it's just to check cells/temp-stick/general-breathing more than anything else.

Matt.

matt
20-06-2015, 06:52 PM
I think in truth its a great unit, but spoiled by poor support from VR.

:y:

Rob Dobson
20-06-2015, 06:56 PM
Thanks Simon and Matt. That's inline with what I was taught, what I thought and how I dived CCR.

So we have units that's by design attempting to enforce something which has no recognised benefit? Hhhmmmmm.....

GLOC
20-06-2015, 07:13 PM
At the time, it was thought it was a good thing to do, but things move on.

However, why not now use that time to get people to slow down and make sure that they are in the right frame of mind, using that time to check through instrumentation and configuration?

Regards

jamesp
20-06-2015, 07:17 PM
At the time, it was thought it was a good thing to do, but things move on.

However, why not now use that time to get people to slow down and make sure that they are in the right frame of mind, using that time to check through instrumentation and configuration?

Regards

Nah, just hammer on down with a full on negative descent.
Loads of time to sort out any problems.

What could possibly go wrong?

GLOC
20-06-2015, 07:19 PM
https://verybritishproblems.teemill.co.uk/product/expecting-disaster-t-shirt/ ;)

jamesp
20-06-2015, 07:41 PM
https://verybritishproblems.teemill.co.uk/product/expecting-disaster-t-shirt/ ;)

Ordered.

Jackdiver
20-06-2015, 10:01 PM
Maybe I was just lucky, but I never had a reason to complain about the service I received from VR.
However I accept that others may not have shared my experience.

VMS have been great, and they are working hard to remove some of the niggles built in by VR.

It's great that the Sentinel has a future beyond VR. The Red Head looks to be the unit VR should have built to start with.
The only downside seems to be that it doesn't fit on the travel frame.

BARDO
21-06-2015, 12:29 PM
Maybe I was just lucky, but I never had a reason to complain about the service I received from VR.
However I accept that others may not have shared my experience.

VMS have been great, and they are working hard to remove some of the niggles built in by VR.

It's great that the Sentinel has a future beyond VR. The Red Head looks to be the unit VR should have built to start with.
The only downside seems to be that it doesn't fit on the travel frame.To be fair, the original travel frame actually made the unit *heavier* so it was a bit of a nonsense. The beauty of the new RedHead is its modularity and how light weight stuff like the head now is. I've had a guided tour of the new unit and its benefits and I was impressed - particularly impressive is how well the unit tracks and controls PO2 within the loop. When the unit was tested at ANSTI, they apparently couldn't believe how good the results were!

windymiller
21-06-2015, 12:50 PM
Shame about the price...I have an older working unit and was tempted to have it serviced but they probably bound to find a fault and my bill would be in the 000s

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

matt
21-06-2015, 12:55 PM
Shame about the price...I have an older working unit and was tempted to have it serviced but they probably bound to find a fault and my bill would be in the 000s

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I couldn't see the price?

windymiller
21-06-2015, 12:59 PM
About 3 grand for the head I believe...you don't even get a service in that price...VMS have certainly got vr pricing policy!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

matt
21-06-2015, 01:41 PM
About 3 grand for the head I believe...you don't even get a service in that price...VMS have certainly got vr pricing policy!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Wow. Second-hand units are selling for the price of the latest service. Another 2200 gets you a brand-new Inspo. That said, it's around the same price for the classic-vision upgrade.

Matt.

Doomanic
21-06-2015, 01:58 PM
What are the advantages of the Redhead over the old Sent-to-hell?

windymiller
21-06-2015, 02:41 PM
It's ridiculous... Mine is just sat doing nothing...can't sell it, as no market and can't bring myself to get it serviced as I ve yet to hear of a service being under 700!!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

windymiller
21-06-2015, 02:41 PM
Had 2 services on my inspo so far, never much more than 100 quid

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Hot Totty
22-06-2015, 05:57 AM
Had 2 services on my inspo so far, never much more than 100 quid

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Do AP just service the head for that or both first stages, bov and replace worn o rings as well

dwhitlow
22-06-2015, 09:45 AM
Do AP just service the head for that or both first stages, bov and replace worn o rings as well

They will service whatever you give them. As I bought mine 5 years ago, the ADV playing up and tempstik unwell I took the whole unit to them, g-box, backplate and all, and asked them to service it. It was in pieces by the time I'd finished my guided tour and came back 10 days later fully assembled with all serviceable items serviced.

Rob Dobson
22-06-2015, 09:56 AM
They will service whatever you give them. As I bought mine 5 years ago, the ADV playing up and tempstik unwell I took the whole unit to them, g-box, backplate and all, and asked them to service it. It was in pieces by the time I'd finished my guided tour and came back 10 days later fully assembled with all serviceable items serviced.

And what did that set you back Dave? The service, not the tour :)

dwhitlow
22-06-2015, 10:17 AM
And what did that set you back Dave? The service, not the tour :)
:p a fully serviced and nicely adjusted rebreather came home and has been behaving very nicely since the service.

Rob Dobson
22-06-2015, 10:28 AM
:p a fully serviced and nicely adjusted rebreather came home and has been behaving very nicely since the service.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of your full service? So far we have 100 for a YBD service and 700 for Disco Bereaver service. Which end of the spectrum was your last service on a modified YBD?

Mark Chase
22-06-2015, 02:24 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of your full service? So far we have 100 for a YBD service and 700 for Disco Bereaver service. Which end of the spectrum was your last service on a modified YBD?



Whats a service? :)


I sent my classic in because it was broken and I think I paid about 350 for a new handset, new loom and a repair on the buzzer.

First stage service would be nice but they dont do that unleess you want them too, I just sent the head in.

I got ripped off for cells as well but thats another story

I can change the bloody 0 rings my self :D

ATB

Mark

notdeadyet
22-06-2015, 03:04 PM
Just out of interest, what happened if you sent the head with no cells? They didnt put a full set in, did they?

dwhitlow
22-06-2015, 05:11 PM
If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of your full service? So far we have 100 for a YBD service and 700 for Disco Bereaver service. Which end of the spectrum was your last service on a modified YBD?

Including VAT the service was broken down into:

60 lid service 60
105 OCB, ADV & flow stop, inflators and autoair
85 2 first stages

This included the cost of kits required for the service but excluded any faulty parts identified the service. As a 5 year service I was not unhappy.