Party Politicking vs Principles, Honesty and dare I say it Collaboration

[Mikael]

They are all at, some worse but they are all at it!
Why is it in our political system that few have the strength of conviction to be honest about their political intentions? It is as if politicians have all adopted the lowest common denominator approach to their work even on the most critical of issues.

Here is Michael Fallon refusing to back labour on trident renewal;

It is obvious politicking, both Con and Lab are in favour of renewal so why would Fallon not openly state that his party would support a minority labour government motion to get it done? The pro renewal parties clearly have more MPs then those opposed (Green, SNP, Plaid C). The reason he doesn't want to acknowledge this simple fact is that to do so would undermine Tories claim that a Lab - SNP alliance is a threat to Trident when reality isn't if the Tories would vote with labour.

[Mike Ward]

It's 'cos 'being in power' is the goal, not running the country properly. I cannot abide the idea of the parties finding out what the electorate wants then saying that's what they'll do. Tell me what you honestly believe needs to be done and I'll make up my mind if I agree with you.

[Chrisch]

....Why is it in our political system that few have the strength of conviction to be honest about their political intentions?....

There is no need. Their intentions are to make money for themselves. Everyone already knows that. Beyond that they only behave in a way that their paymasters require. The Tories give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor. Labour give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the general taxpayers as a whole. No other party is important as they will never hold power. If you don't like horse racing vote Green. If you are a bit thick and racist vote UKIP. If you have a bit of a sad bedwetter tendency to feel sorry for people vote Lib Dem so they don't lose their deposit.

Or don't bother.

[jturner]

Or don't bother.

Do bother unless you wish to give up completely. Can't remember how many times I've said it but you might achieve nothing by voting but you ensure you achieve nothing by not voting. Vote for the nearest party to what you do believe in and then hold them to account to deliver what they promise or ensure your vote is registered as a Reject rather than a spoilt ballot.

[Stevie H]

There is no need. Their intentions are to make money for themselves. Everyone already knows that. Beyond that they only behave in a way that their paymasters require. The Tories give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the poor. Labour give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of the general taxpayers as a whole. No other party is important as they will never hold power. If you don't like horse racing vote Green. If you are a bit thick and racist vote UKIP. If you have a bit of a sad bedwetter tendency to feel sorry for people vote Lib Dem so they don't lose their deposit.

Or don't bother.

"Vote Green"!!!! Were you smoking mother earth when you typed that? You only have to look at the towns n cities that have Green councils to see how badly they will do in power. Brighton have a Green council but on current opinion will be lucky to come forth in the next council elections.......

[Chrisch]

"Vote Green"!!!! Were you smoking mother earth when you typed that? You only have to look at the towns n cities that have Green councils to see how badly they will do in power. Brighton have a Green council but on current opinion will be lucky to come forth in the next council elections.......

Look at the country to see what a fuck up the Tories make - this time round with the idiot Lib Dems. Look at the fuck up under Blair. The Greens would need to be smacked off their tits to do that badly. At least they give a shit about the future.

[Mikael]

"Vote Green"!!!! Were you smoking mother earth when you typed that? You only have to look at the towns n cities that have Green councils to see how badly they will do in power. Brighton have a Green council but on current opinion will be lucky to come forth in the next council elections.......

As I understand it Brighton is a minority Green run council and as such lab and con can club together to undermine them. Living at the other end of the country I have not paid much attention to what happens in Brighton but it wouldn't surprise me if lab and con were doing exactly this. Would also like to know how much funding Brighton got since they elected a Green council?

Regardless the Greens' performance on a single council need not be any indicator on how they would fair in national government. On a blind policies only basis there is a lot of support for them.

Vote for policies

At the end of the day despite them offering policies that find a lot of favour everyone knows they don't stand a chance of winning, so a vote for them is wasted vote and so most don't vote for them. The reason they don't stand a chance of winning is that people don't vote for them.....! Or put it another way if people thought they could win then many people would vote for them and then they could win....

Here is John Cleese making the same point for the lib dems;

First past the post at its finest!

[Chrisch]

Do bother unless you wish to give up completely. Can't remember how many times I've said it but you might achieve nothing by voting but you ensure you achieve nothing by not voting. Vote for the nearest party to what you do believe in and then hold them to account to deliver what they promise or ensure your vote is registered as a Reject rather than a spoilt ballot.

How does one do this? If I fill in the "quiz" in the paper I can see that the Tories are furthest away. I can also see in they will not lose in my constituency. If anyone gets to "challenge" their position it is most likely UKIP. So given that this is more or less the opposite of my views who do I vote for?

And how does one hold them accountable? I am unaware of any mechanism to do this. At the last election my second choice - Lib Dem held the balance of power. Good. Except they didn't carry out anything they promised. Now five years later how do I register my discomfort? Not voting for my second choice - a vote that will have no effect even if I cast it?

Short of being home when the canvassers come round and punching the UKIP wankers in the face I cannot see anything constructive.

The UK had it's chance to increase democratic representation and didn't want it. Fair enough. I will be staying at home as usual.

[Mikael]

How does one do this? If I fill in the "quiz" in the paper I can see that the Tories are furthest away. I can also see in they will not lose in my constituency. If anyone gets to "challenge" their position it is most likely UKIP. So given that this is more or less the opposite of my views who do I vote for?

And how does one hold them accountable? I am unaware of any mechanism to do this. At the last election my second choice - Lib Dem held the balance of power. Good. Except they didn't carry out anything they promised. Now five years later how do I register my discomfort? Not voting for my second choice - a vote that will have no effect even if I cast it?

Short of being home when the canvassers come round and punching the UKIP wankers in the face I cannot see anything constructive.

The UK had it's chance to increase democratic representation and didn't want it. Fair enough. I will be staying at home as usual.

If you vote for smaller party you at least lessen the share of votes the two main parties get. Maybe if we keep this up for 10 or 20 years the electorate will twig on that the system is shit enough that should the opportunity for increased representation raise its head again they will grasp it with both hands rather than blindly carrying on with the same old. That at least is the one consolation I can find when I got to the polling booth.

[jamesp]

How does one do this? If I fill in the "quiz" in the paper I can see that the Tories are furthest away. I can also see in they will not lose in my constituency. If anyone gets to "challenge" their position it is most likely UKIP. So given that this is more or less the opposite of my views who do I vote for?

And how does one hold them accountable? I am unaware of any mechanism to do this. At the last election my second choice - Lib Dem held the balance of power. Good. Except they didn't carry out anything they promised. Now five years later how do I register my discomfort? Not voting for my second choice - a vote that will have no effect even if I cast it?

Short of being home when the canvassers come round and punching the UKIP wankers in the face I cannot see anything constructive.

The UK had it's chance to increase democratic representation and didn't want it. Fair enough. I will be staying at home as usual.

Well I will be voting as usual, might not even bother voting tactically this time either.

As for punching the UKIP guy, I am told violence is not to be condoned.

Therefore I settle for stating that there are some individuals who deserve a slap with a wet fish, for some of them I would freeze the fish first.

As for the OP, the problem is the lowest common denominator is the electorate.
Unfortunately a significant number of them stretch the definition of stupid to new extremes and would be seriously out of their depth with a question like Tea or Coffee?
Their votes however all count the same.

Did anyone else see the poor clueless lass on Breakfast with Eammon Holmes on Sky this morning?
I thought one of the two Women co-presenters was about to rip her head off live on air for being so dim.

[jturner]

How does one do this? If I fill in the "quiz" in the paper I can see that the Tories are furthest away. I can also see in they will not lose in my constituency. If anyone gets to "challenge" their position it is most likely UKIP. So given that this is more or less the opposite of my views who do I vote for?

I wouldn't presume to tell you who you should vote for in your personal circumstances. All I would say is that politicians are likely to be swayed by something that has popular support ie they'll want to identify with it and say "hey, I support that too - vote for me" and to reiterate that doing nothing will guarantee you'll achieve nothing and that safe Tory seat will continue to be so until others finally swing it to another party or at least make it a marginal seat by their efforts. FWIW, if I was in your constituency, I would vote for the party whose policies I support the most (as I doubt any have a neat fit) and if they're all too toxic, I would ensure my vote is registered as a reject rather than a spoilt paper.

And how does one hold them accountable? I am unaware of any mechanism to do this. At the last election my second choice - Lib Dem held the balance of power. Good. Except they didn't carry out anything they promised. Now five years later how do I register my discomfort? Not voting for my second choice - a vote that will have no effect even if I cast it?

Wait and see what happens to the Lib Dems this election and you'll see how they get held to account. I might be wrong but I'm guessing Nick Clegg's CV will be needing dusting off in the near future, as he'll be wanting it right after getting sacked/resigning after the rout they are about to suffer. They made a pact with the devil. Now comes the payment.

Short of being home when the canvassers come round and punching the UKIP wankers in the face I cannot see anything constructive.

The UK had it's chance to increase democratic representation and didn't want it. Fair enough. I will be staying at home as usual.

Tempting though it might be with some of the UKIP far-right goons and putting aside the morality of the act, hitting someone who has at least got off their backside to work for a change they believe in (even if it is one you disagree with) would be a pretty awkward - you can't be bothered to work for change; ok, that's your choice. They can, so they deserve to be punched, just because of that and the fact you don't like their views? Anyway, I'm sure this is academic as I doubt you'd really assault anyone and was using it as a rhetorical flourish but keeping UKIP and their fellow loons out might be a good reason to get out and vote anyway, don't you think?

[Hot Totty]

We need a radical approach to voting, how about a 'non of the above' bit then if that wins all the other candidates in that constituency have to stand down and allow a fresh lot in on a re-vote. Might take some time but eventually the politicians might learn that they need to have 'ideas' and they need to 'sell' those to the electorate not just rubbish everyone else!!!!

[Mikael]

I would ensure my vote is registered as a reject rather than a spoilt paper.

Please explain?
Unless I have missed something you have four options;

1- Don't bother to register to vote
2- Register but don't turn out
3- Register and vote for one of the candidates
4- Register and spoil your paper

How do you register your vote as Reject exactly?

[jturner]

Please explain?
Unless I have missed something you have four options;

1- Don't bother to register to vote
2- Register but don't turn out
3- Register and vote for one of the candidates
4- Register and spoil your paper

How do you register your vote as Reject exactly?

A quick Google gives you http://www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html

[Mikael]

A quick Google gives you http://www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html

So option four - a spoilt vote.

I am sympathetic to the motivations of Vote None but currently such a action is not officially recognised and will simply be announced in with the other spoilt votes. Vote None are hoping that the numbers will rise so polling officials will have to start recognising the vote none idea as separate to a spoilt vote. Given that the spoilt votes currently sit at around 1% I would imagine they have a long way to go. Good luck.