Reg Hose Lengths....

[Frappawotsit]

OK... So i know there are several options for Regulator hoses, but it seems to be that certainly for Open Water / Wreck Sidemount (as opposed to caves) the general consensus seems to be like the backmount standard, 210cm Long Hose on Right side, 70-75cm Short Hose on Left Side, both routed around the neck and feeding the diver from the right side.

My question is Why?

I've seen 2 x 5ft hoses routed directly to the mouth, (ie not around the neck) discussed several times and can't help but think that maybe this configuration would have the single biggest advantage of being easy to integrate within mixed teams as it would allow the standard Primary Donate drill to work without modification, keeping mixed team diving a more integrated option?

What are the disadvantages to 2 x 5ft hoses?

What makes the 210cm and 70-75cm hose rigging favourable over the 2 x 5ft option?

[rongoodman]

The 7 ft hose comes from situations where you need to do a single file, gas sharing exit with your partner(OOA diver leads). Since this is the hose to be donated, it will be the one you're breathing from(for most divers/organizations), insuring the the OOA diver is presented with a known, working regulator. Since the secondary is just hanging under your chin, there's no need for any extra length. 5' hoses are too short for a single file exit, but longer than needed for an open-water, grab the other diver trip to the surface. That being said, if I'm diving in open water back mount without a can light, I find a 5 ft hose to be a good replacement for the 7 fit version. Sidemount is a little different, but if I was going to dive SM with a mixed team, I'd have the long hose bungeed on the right tank and routed as normal. In a sidemount only cave, it will be just two short hoses.

[Frappawotsit]

I understand the origins, so i guess my question is based more around the SM specific issues.

I'm wondering as the 1st stages are a little further down my body in SM than they would be for backmount twins, albeit only about 1ft not 2ft further down, I wondered if 5ft hoses would still be enough in SM for a single file exit if necessary?

I'm currently set up as per the "standard" with 7ft hose and short necklaced hose, but this causes questions and concerns from BM twinset divers regarding OOG drills.... whereas 2 x 5ft hoses, would mitigate their concerns as the OOG drill would go back to being the same.... Primary Donate.

I'm making the assumption, that as 2 x 5ft hoses has NOT been adopted, (for open water Sidemount) that there must be some well thought out reasoning that i'm not aware of...... perhaps 5ft just isn't enough, even in Sidemount configuration?

[rongoodman]

I
I'm currently set up as per the "standard" with 7ft hose and short necklaced hose, but this causes questions and concerns from BM twinset divers regarding OOG drills.... whereas 2 x 5ft hoses, would mitigate their concerns as the OOG drill would go back to being the same.... Primary Donate.

What kinds of concerns? I assume when you're breathing the short hose, you have the long one clipped off. Do you have some type of quick-release or breakaway on it, or would you have to unclip it to donate?

[Frappawotsit]

What kinds of concerns? I assume when you're breathing the short hose, you have the long one clipped off. Do you have some type of quick-release or breakaway on it, or would you have to unclip it to donate?

I have it on a breakaway clip and it's bright yellow for visibility, but i've found "some" BM divers still get funny about it...... apparently if it's not Primary Donate, they're going to die!

I was just looking to remove this concern from the picture.... but if 5ft isnt long enough, then i'll be continuing with my 7ft one side, short hose the other.....

[OutOfTest]

I've got a myriad of hose set ups for my sidemount depending upon the dive.

Two 50cm straight from cylinder to mouth for tight, nasty dives where bottles need to be on and off constantly. Regs are both are hard linked to a reg necklace.

Two 65cm hoses to cross across front and into mouth. These are for tight passages where bottles do not constantly need to be on and off. Both are attached with a hardlink to necklace.

Two 90cm reg hoses that go behind my neck and into mouth. Large passages and open water. Both hard linked to necklace.

I'm in sidemount. I shouldn't need gas off anyone.


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[Frappawotsit]

I'm in sidemount. I shouldn't need gas off anyone.

But in mixed teams, which is where my question stems from, what about if you need to donate gas? Its not about you needing gas, its about you being the donator!

[Mikael]

I am not a fan of the idea of relying on a break away connection on the long hose, playing around with different O rings or cable ties to find one that is strong enough for regular abuse but will still break when given a determined grab. I played around on land with this and never found a happy solution. I also don't like this, if I am breathing the long hose you get that, if I am on the necklace you get the long hose that is clip off by grabbing and breaking the connection to the clip.

I am sure this approach can work but for me personally it does not sit well. I want to retain, the 'what ever reg is in my mouth is the one you get' approach.

This brings us to the one or two long hoses. Here it makes sense to me to carry just one long hose. As soon as the OOG diver has a working reg and you have the other in your mouth you can then take a moment to compose yourself and if need be exchange regs. Having only one cylinder with a short hose is a little bit neater that little bit more streamlined.

The next question is if you are going to reply on donating the 'in-use' reg at all times how do you route / manage hoses so switching does not trap one under the other (especially if you are running both around the neck)?

Here is one approach I have tried that worked well;

Though I have not tried it yet I am thinking of giving this second setup a go next (not sure about lolly-popping the gauges though);

The x2 1.5m hoses you suggest going direct to the mouth can certainly work Frappa. If going direct you won't trap anything so it just a case of how best to clip off / manage regs and how to store the excess hose length down the sides of the cylinders. Let us know how you get on.

[OutOfTest]

But in mixed teams, which is where my question stems from, what about if you need to donate gas? Its not about you needing gas, its about you being the donator!

I wouldn't dive a mixed team without thoroughly briefing that I'm unable to donate gas, as several members on here can testify to.


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[Mikael]

I wouldn't dive a mixed team without thoroughly briefing that I'm unable to donate gas, as several members on here can testify to.


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Each to their own but surely if you are unable to donate gas you its more like a team plus you. It is good to be self sufficient but for many (Frappa for example) they don't want that self sufficiency to come at the expense of not being able to offer gas to others even when diving in a mixed team.

I am in a club environment which is all about buddy diving and has no sidemount divers. If I am sidemounting I am doing it for fun but I will make it work for my buddies. To do anything else would be irresponsible of me.

[OutOfTest]

Let your buddies buddy.

Team will help me with photos, line issues, kit issues, exploration issues, and it's someone to share the dive with.

Gas? Well we're all big boys and girls.


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[Mikael]

Let your buddies buddy.

Team will help me with photos, line issues, kit issues, exploration issues, and it's someone to share the dive with.

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All valid points

but....

Gas? Well we're all big boys and girls.

What about divers on a single cylinder who have trained and are accustomed to buddy diving, are they little boys and girls by your reasoning?

I don't think so. While I see the appeal and sometimes carry my own independent air source I am also happy to single cylinder dive with a buddy.

Each to their own is fair enough if everyone is on board with this idea but for the type of diving Frappa is considering this is often not the case.

[OutOfTest]

I'm happy to dive single cylinder with a buddy, and manifolded twin with buddy and wouldn't contemplate diving solo in those configurations.

But if the club is mostly single cylinder buddy divers, why do you need to donate to them? Surely there's a sufficient amount of them to form their own, safe, teams.


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[Mikael]

But if the club is mostly single cylinder buddy divers, why do you need to donate to them? Surely there's a sufficient amount of them to form their own, safe, teams.
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Because in this situation I would neither solo dive nor dive without being able to donate. I am an instructor and the BDO, as such I should set a good example by following the training and dive principles advocated by our dive agency. I am also frequently the buddy to a less experienced diver.

If I am in a buddy pair then the need to donate gas may arise obviously. Even with the other more experienced divers in the club few have a truly independent air supplies (many are on manifolded twins).

If I am in a three tell the other two that they can sort themselves out in case of an emergency is not ideal to say the least. In an emergency it may be that I am the closest diver to the OOG one.

All in all while I dive within the club environment I will retain some means of sharing gas if needed. Outwit the club and with other self sufficient divers I might re-think but given the ease with which a long hose can be stored I don't really see why? I am not into over head diving, let alone penetrations that are so tight as to make a long hose a serious snagging hazard. I am not knocking the idea of everyone being gas wise self sufficient, this clearly has its place in certain types of diving and would not hurt in others but the diving I do calls for buddy assistance should a diver go OOG so I setup for that.

[OutOfTest]

Surely if you're instructing you're in a similar set up to your students?


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