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Decosnapper
21-03-2015, 01:42 PM
So I'm pondering the acquisition of a rebreather.

Trimix to 60m is a must. Which I think will eliminate the recreational stuff.

But that still leaves a wide choice, so I open the floor for debate.

Please remember my primary reason to dive is to create images. I'm hesitant to mix two potentially complex bits of kit, but others have and do. I would welcome any thoughts from those that combine both, pisotope and negative thoughts alike.

Over to the forum...

nickb
21-03-2015, 02:05 PM
Budget?

Dunno about the rEvo, which is the only other CCR I'd be interested in (until the Aurora Blue becomes a reality), but the JJ is priced in €uros and at 1.4 to the £ right now are so cheap I'm thinking of replacing mine with a new one.

Decosnapper
21-03-2015, 02:10 PM
Budget?

Lets leave that to one side for the mo...consider it open.

nickb
21-03-2015, 02:15 PM
Lets leave that to one side for the mo...consider it open.I'd still recommend the JJ. Preferably new, with all the DiveCAN stuff. The new HUD has all the info you need to avoid having to constantly monitor the handset although it could be replaced by the NERD if you want ALL the info.

Simon Mitchell was using the NERD in Bikini last year (on his Evolution) and was very impressed that it didn't distract from his photography.

matt
21-03-2015, 02:18 PM
Something with a proper Heads-up like the NERD or the HUS so you can ditch the handset and focus on the camera?

Matt.

ebt
21-03-2015, 03:13 PM
Something with a proper Heads-up like the NERD or the HUS so you can ditch the handset and focus on the camera?

Matt.

This. The other criteria (I guess) may be CE, to avoid any potential "issues" from folks looking for trouble.

Personally I like a lot of what the revo has to offer, (low profile, split scrubber, low travel weight etc) when combined with a shearwater.

I'd stick a JJ on the list, but its pretty much between those two. the new liberty thingy looks very interesting, but it lacks the HUD and i suspect a lot of the helium sensor stuff will end up being a flash in the pan.

gordyp
21-03-2015, 03:30 PM
Can't comment on the JJ. Can heartily recommend a Revo with the Nerd, also priced in Euros.

Best thing is to get a try dive on a few units, I personally tried the Inspo which I really didn't like, the Revo was just instantly easy and comfortable to dive.

Baron015
21-03-2015, 04:07 PM
I would be looking at rEvo or JJ if I didn't already have a unit

I particularly like the simplicity of JJ, just a metal can and the head, that's it. No wires sticking out or bits bolted on, it's very neat. On the rEvo it's a bit more complicated with the two scrubbers, rms system, etc., and when you look inside the box you can see all the wires etc.

Aurora Blue also looks very cool, I dive with someone who is on a prototype unit and he definitely is very happy (he had an eEvo before)

notdeadyet
21-03-2015, 07:21 PM
Is your photography "at work"? If so I'd wager you'd need a CE unit.

To be honest, I dont think there are any "bad" units out there. The Boris is probably the only one I wouldn't touch because of poor original reliability and dubious ongoing support. Says me that owns a unit that hasnt had manufacturer support in 25 years.

You wont go wrong with any of the main units. Personally, I like simple, I like being able to pull the unit apart in the field and keep it going. The modern electronics packages like the NERD and DiveCAN systems are very innovative but push the owner further out the way. I also dont really see the point of all that info in my eyeball, I look at my computer about 3 times on a dive until I hit my stops. I like the simple red/amber/green hud the HH uses, that's still a bit too complex for me.

Paulo
21-03-2015, 07:27 PM
I know that this particular unit http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?15194-For-Sale-2007-AP-Inspiration-Vision-Rebreather has been there and done it.

SimonK
21-03-2015, 07:52 PM
Bit like asking 'what camera should I buy, nikon or cannon' the mainstream units are all good. What do people you dive with use? Which units have the best customer service?

Barrygoss
21-03-2015, 08:17 PM
JJ, it's supported in the UK.

B

Alby R
21-03-2015, 08:18 PM
why not an Apoc there is no way that will interfere with your photography :devil:

sorry i'll get my coat

alby

Simon A
21-03-2015, 08:29 PM
My suggestion is if you can to get a try dive on a Vision with BMCL, a JJ, and a rEvo 3. But I'd bet that you will end up with a JJ or a rEvo3 (if you are intending to fly with it, look at the micro or mini in titanium as well) with a NERD.
Simon

Janos
21-03-2015, 08:30 PM
I have dived a KISS (~600 hrs) and a JJ (~800 hrs).

I like both units, but really like the JJ. The KISS is simple, easy to use, but a little bit dated and doesn't handle floods well.
I think of the JJ as a 21st century KISS. It's a little more complex but still very easy to use.

I would have thought the NERD (full function deco computer / ppO2 monitor in a heads-up display) would be perfect for a photographer.

Janos

iamyourgasman
21-03-2015, 08:47 PM
Another vote for the rEvo mini/micro hCCR with rMS and Shearwater (would you have guessed that???). for all the reasons mentioned before. If you want you can try mine. We are overdue for a dive anyway. I haven't tried the NERD and I don't want to as what if I really like it 8D! But! It would be much easier to sort out training on the JJ in the UK with fantastic instructors and I think it is the best pure eCCR currently on the market. Or you can always buy an APOC ;)

Ian_6301
21-03-2015, 08:52 PM
I'm watching this thread with ENORMOUS interest...

I have a modest windfall coming, on the occasion of leaving the service of Her Majesty in favour of being a strawberry mivvy.

If I can get it past the scrutineers, I might be wanting to jump on this ere bandwagon....

Could someone give me an idea on how much it'll cost to convert a JJ from vanilla config to GUE config?

nickb
21-03-2015, 09:15 PM
Could someone give me an idea on how much it'll cost to convert a JJ from vanilla config to GUE config?GUE compliant wing/backplate, more suitable regs, two new cylinders and the valve/manifold and some new hoses. I think that's the only difference. Probably £1500 or even more but you still won't be GUE compliant unless you do the training with them. Speak to Graham Blackmore...

BTS
21-03-2015, 09:26 PM
I'm hesitant to mix two potentially complex bits of kit

First thing to do is get over the idea CCR is complex, it isn't. Cameras are way more complex... The deco on CCR is less complex than OC.

Other than that, if I was buying from new and had the cash then a JJ would be the only realistic option, buying on a tighter budget, second hand AP unit of your choice...

nigel hewitt
21-03-2015, 10:24 PM
I have very little experience of different models.
I wouldn't recommend a Sentinel but I don't think you can get the one I had any more.
I liked all my Inspirations and bought a new one (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/inspiration/index.html) about a year ago.
They are very difficult to break.
I've seen lots of other manufacturers kits and these days they are all pretty sorted out.

Just make sure you don't buy anything brand new to the market.

Ian_6301
22-03-2015, 06:58 AM
GUE compliant wing/backplate, more suitable regs, two new cylinders and the valve/manifold and some new hoses. I think that's the only difference. Probably £1500 or even more but you still won't be GUE compliant unless you do the training with them. Speak to Graham Blackmore...

So, as I already have the BP and wing, the regs and a pair of 8.5L cylinders, I just need a pair of Lola valves, the manifold and hoses then? Or do I need 7s?

I'm already a T1 diver, so would need to weigh off T2 before I could jump on the CCR course, but I like the idea of getting the unit, doing any old MOD1 on it and then getting dived up before I go across. Plus I hear rumblings that they're planning on dropping the pre-reqs to T1 rather than T2...

Paulo
22-03-2015, 07:01 AM
Will GUE divers have to learn how to dive out of trim on a rebreather? AIUI perfectly flat trim and CCR do not necessarily go hand in hand

Hot Totty
22-03-2015, 07:06 AM
Will GUE divers have to learn how to dive out of trip on a rebreather? AIUI perfectly flat trim and CCR do not necessarily go hand in hand

Depends on the unit, I was flat on my sentinel, folks I know are flat on the JJ and revo - it's not generally the unit but the diver who determines how flat they want to be ;)

Mark Chase
22-03-2015, 07:42 AM
The only unit which works for me streight out of the box is a JJ.

Its relaiable compact trims out nicly and is very easy to travel with. Just assemble and dive and it works but id defo put a BOV on it

For your camera work id say a JJ + NERD + BOV would be a good combination


rEvo is very nice to dive and by far the most flexable in terms of adding redundent systems but the travel freindly Micro I dont think is CE? and I wouldent choose it, the Mini is a good compromise but it needs a stand, it needs a BOV and the only one if buy is the Hybrid with Shearwater HUD and wrist unit. Again NERD would be good for you.


Vision is a solid unit and the warning buzzers would help with ditstaction photography but its a bit of a sod to travel with, its not that easy to trim out properly (4kg on my JJ 8KG on my Inspo with same rig) It was slightly short for my 5 10" body so I wanted a stand for it and IMHO the standard harness and OTS lungs are a bit crap

Vision with rear lungs and G Box would be my choice but the big no no is the back to base requirement when it goes wrong

Therss not enough data on the latest units to pass judgemt but some of them look interesting. I dont like the Meg and I absolutly hate the Sentinal

For me my first choice of a CCR would be a KISS but Id need to modifie it (SS counterlung case for UK travel frame fror flights Golum SHrimp BOV Sheerwater HUD and Wrist unit, John Falcone ADV. After that (i had one set like this) it is my favorate unit so far but MCCR is not ideal for serious photagraphy.

ATB

Mark

Paulo
22-03-2015, 10:01 AM
If the GUE modified JJ is not CE doesnt that add complications for the UK based GUErs?

GLOC
22-03-2015, 10:08 AM
No. Why should it Paulo? However, what it does mean is that training can't be carried out in this country (or the instructor can't be on that unit, which sort of defeats the team ethos).

Ian, as Nick said, touch base with Richard or Graham but I believe that the wing is different so you would likely need a new one.

Regards

Paulo
22-03-2015, 10:09 AM
No. Why should it Paulo? However, what it does mean is that training can't be carried out in this country (or the instructor can't be on that unit, which sort of defeats the team ethos).

Regards

Well they are the 2 added complications I was thinking of tbh

GLOC
22-03-2015, 10:11 AM
Outside of a commercial construct (therefore under HSE), you can dive what the hell you like.

Regards

Paulo
22-03-2015, 10:15 AM
Outside of a commercial construct (therefore under HSE), you can dive what the hell you like.

Regards
Okay but the UK based instructors will have to teach abroad. I cant see GUE approving their instructors to use a product that they feel does not meet their requirements while teaching

cathal
22-03-2015, 10:17 AM
Back to the original OP. You won't go wrong with the top 3-4 manufacturers. However as Mark points out an mccr would not be ideal for photography and getting a unit that had a NERD would be a real plus in this regard. BMCL I found to be very easy to get in trim coming straight from a twinset.
Rgds
Cathal

GLOC
22-03-2015, 10:17 AM
It is a moot point at the moment as I am pretty sure there aren't any UK-based GUE CCR instructors...

GUE are running courses in Malta and Croatia so it isn't that far to travel and the costs when you get there are pretty good so not much in it really.

Regards

Paulo
22-03-2015, 10:28 AM
Ah yes Malta and Croatia, well known for offering UK like diving conditions. Saying just train abroad is a cop out and you know it is

matt
22-03-2015, 10:31 AM
Ah yes Malta and Croatia, well known for offering UK like diving conditions. Saying just train abroad is a cop out and you know it is

American system. UK's not so important :-)

GLOC
22-03-2015, 10:39 AM
Simon, sorry for taking the thread off-topic.

Paulo,

I very much doubt it is a cop-out undertaking a GUE CCR class overseas. Yes, the water temperatures are going to be warmer, and the visibility is going to be greater, but I doubt that changes the level of the skills required on the course. Will it mean that those who undertake the course will be less prepared than in if they did the course in the UK, maybe, but only for a small part covering the environmental conditions. Seeing as the entry level is Tech 2 at the moment, I am sure that diving in poor vis won't be too much of an issue if they are diving in the UK at Tech 1 or Tech 2 level...so, no I don't think it is a cop-out.

If you mean it is a cop-out to not get the unit CE'd. I'll let you take that up with the guys developing the training course and see whether they share your same thoughts. I am sure they would love to hear from you.

Regards

nickb
22-03-2015, 10:55 AM
AIUI perfectly flat trim and CCR do not necessarily go hand in handAbsolute nonsense


Ah yes Malta and Croatia, well known for offering UK like diving conditions. Saying just train abroad is a cop out and you know it isMore nonsense.

I did my MOD 1 in Egypt for a number of reasons, not least - guaranteed conditions. It was 23 years after my first diving qualification - how is this a cop-out?

Simon is asking for recommendations for a CCR that's suitable for an already very experienced OC diver whose primary objective is photography. Do you have any experience that could help with this or are you just here to add to your post count?

gobfish1
22-03-2015, 11:00 AM
Ah yes Malta and Croatia, well known for offering UK like diving conditions. Saying just train abroad is a cop out and you know it is

Mod1 is about diving a ccr , it matters not a lot if you want to do I'd in some shitty inland pit mid winter or some place nice and enjoy you training and holiday .

You may want a few drtsuit dives when you get home , if you did the noddy1 in a wet suit My noddy one cost 5k lol

Paulo
22-03-2015, 11:32 AM
Absolute nonsense

Whole thread on it here
http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?10903-Does-the-OC-Configuration-Have-the-Same-Attitude-Impact-as-CCR

nickb
22-03-2015, 11:54 AM
Whole thread on it here
http://www.thediveforum.com/showthread.php?10903-Does-the-OC-Configuration-Have-the-Same-Attitude-Impact-as-CCRThe only conclusion I can draw from that is that you must have been out of internet range at the time as you didn't post an opinion.

Mal
22-03-2015, 12:35 PM
Gents ... please chill ... If you have an opinion which helps the OP then please express it ... If you are just wanting a row then mums.net is a better bet
thanks
mal

nickb
22-03-2015, 01:11 PM
Gents ... please chill ... If you have an opinion which helps the OP then please express it ... If you are just wanting a row then mums.net is a better bet
thanks
malYou have a whole .net just for yourself Mal? xx

Baron015
22-03-2015, 01:56 PM
Gents ... please chill ... If you have an opinion which helps the OP then please express it ... If you are just wanting a row then mums.net is a better bet
thanks
mal

Are you saying mums.net will welcome advice and opinions on motherhood from non-mums just the same as TDF will welcome advice and opinions on CCR diving from non-CCR divers ? Good to know.

matt
22-03-2015, 02:50 PM
Gents ... please chill ... If you have an opinion which helps the OP then please express it ... If you are just wanting a row then mums.net is a better bet
thanks
mal

I thought I'd seen you on mums.net - your maureen (essex), right?

notdeadyet
22-03-2015, 03:39 PM
Are you saying mums.net will welcome advice and opinions on motherhood from non-mums just the same as TDF will welcome advice and opinions on CCR diving from non-CCR divers ? Good to know.
You havent been lynched til you've been lynched on mums.net. Man up and register, chicken.

dwhitlow
22-03-2015, 09:55 PM
Are you saying mums.net will welcome advice and opinions on motherhood from non-mums just the same as TDF will welcome advice and opinions on CCR diving from non-CCR divers ? Good to know.
Perhaps Paulo posts on mums.net too. He's bound to have an opinion on every thread after all.

dwhitlow
22-03-2015, 10:08 PM
... and back to the original question.....

As previously suggested pick an instructor who covers a few units and try them, especially units that offer a visual readout of ppo2 either through informative HUD or a HUS or NERD.

Another thought is spares and servicing, although a well-maintain unit rarely needs many field spares, although you'll often find AP spares on a boat in Scapa Flow and JJ is getting more common.

If I were buying now I would shortlist the Inspo and the JJ but also check out some of the new gadgets offering 60m trimix upgrades.

Barrygoss
22-03-2015, 11:17 PM
... and back to the original question.....

As previously suggested pick an instructor who covers a few units and try them, especially units that offer a visual readout of ppo2 either through informative HUD or a HUS or NERD.

Another thought is spares and servicing, although a well-maintain unit rarely needs many field spares, although you'll often find AP spares on a boat in Scapa Flow and JJ is getting more common.

If I were buying now I would shortlist the Inspo and the JJ but also check out some of the new gadgets offering 60m trimix upgrades.

The day BSAC offer a Fischer price rebreather course (possi 6 or 7), you owe me a bottle of scapa.
The Growley one has been pointed towards council bods who will help him do JJ courses first.

B

I know maybe a dozen mk6 divers, 2 or three text for answers to their trimix 60m ticket questions. a couple can now even instruct on the unit........

gobfish1
23-03-2015, 12:56 AM
The day BSAC offer a Fischer price rebreather course (possi 6 or 7), you owe me a bottle of scapa.
The Growley one has been pointed towards council bods who will help him do JJ courses first.

B

I know maybe a dozen mk6 divers, 2 or three text for answers to their trimix 60m ticket questions. a couple can now even instruct on the unit........
:clap:

flyingfisheye
23-03-2015, 08:03 AM
Ah yes Malta and Croatia, well known for offering UK like diving conditions. Saying just train abroad is a cop out and you know it is

I think training abroad is fine, it's about progression. Start with the unit in nice calm, warm, clear conditions. learn the unit get confidence and then add extra task loading as you progress. If I had the money a week in NDAC in My dry suit freezing to death or a week in Malta, for me Malta every time. Look at flying the RAF use to send trainee pilots to South Africa, USA etc to learn to fly when they could manage the plane, bring them back for the great British weather to make it harder.

Regards

nick

notdeadyet
23-03-2015, 08:49 AM
I dont see any difference. Conditions make little impact on how to dive a unit. Most quarries have good vis. Is that realistic compared to the sea?

matt
23-03-2015, 09:05 AM
I think conditions do make things significantly easier. I certainly recall shut-downs in my twinset training being pretty easy in a 3mm in the Philippines and a bit more awkward on my normoxic in Plymouth.

I did my user course in Plymouth in the drybag and I'm glad I did as it helps to have the instructor about when first faffing with buoyancy- which for me is perhaps the biggest difference coming from OC.

I also dived from a RIB, and having hints and tips for kitting up was useful too.

Matt.

jturner
23-03-2015, 10:16 AM
So I'm pondering the acquisition of a rebreather.

Trimix to 60m is a must. Which I think will eliminate the recreational stuff.

But that still leaves a wide choice, so I open the floor for debate.

Please remember my primary reason to dive is to create images. I'm hesitant to mix two potentially complex bits of kit, but others have and do. I would welcome any thoughts from those that combine both, pisotope and negative thoughts alike.

Over to the forum...

Just a few thoughts:

I'd suggest you try dive a few with the camera as that bulk might make reaching certain parts of the CCR more difficult on some units than on others - ask the person running the try dive which parts you might need to reach in an emergency or just try to reach everything. Getting at APD manual addition valves and counterlung dump toggle on front mounted lungs with a large camera in the way could be interesting, for example!

A good HUD like the HUS or NERD will probably help make your CCR life easier though you'll still have to grit your teeth and move an eye away from the view finder for a moment to use them!!! Still, it will be quicker than a handset! ;-)

Like someone else on here said, consider a unit that your colleagues/peers/buddies also use so you can always get tips/spares/help from someone else you dive with regularly and trust.

Jackdiver
23-03-2015, 10:26 AM
I dive a Sentinel and use a D7000 in a Nauticam housing.
I've had my Sentinel for more than five years, and it's caused me no problems.
The HUD is easily to see and use with a view finder (I have the Inon 45), it gives you PO2 info as well as deco.
O2 and Dil manual adds as well as isolators are easy to reach by feel.
My chest area is clear, so the unit doesn't interfere with my camera at all.
And there is excellent support from VMS at Vobster.

Mark Chase
23-03-2015, 03:27 PM
I was a bit of an arse when I decided the only way to do OC trimix was in the UK on proper UK shipwrecks.

Not only did I end up paying out for boat trips + gas for my instructor but it took me nearly six months to do the bloody course.

I did CCR trimix on a Red Sea Livaboard :D

ATB

Mark

Decosnapper
24-03-2015, 07:14 PM
Well the forum has spoken...


I would have thought the NERD (full function deco computer / ppO2 monitor in a heads-up display) would be perfect for a photographer

Something with a proper Heads-up like the NERD or the HUS so you can ditch the handset and focus on the camera?

For your camera work id say a JJ + NERD + BOV would be a good combination

I'm seeing a pattern form.


First thing to do is get over the idea CCR is complex, it isn't. Cameras are way more complex...

Putting a camera in a housing and making sure its sealed takes a fair bit of quiet time. I see preparing a rebreather as a similar process, albeit one that costs you a life rather than a few £kkk if you flood a camera...my primary concern is task loading before rather than during a dive. Only one way to find out I guess.


Simon, sorry for taking the thread off-topic

Its TDF...to be honest I was expecting an off-topic drift a lot earlier...I would say well done, but fear everyone is starting to lose it...


You havent been lynched til you've been lynched on mums.net

I have heard a roasting by mumsnet is more entertaining...


especially units that offer a visual readout of ppo2 either through informative HUD or a HUS or NERD

Reaffirmation of same pattern. Some form of in your face display seems like a very good idea.


I'd suggest you try dive a few with the camera...A good HUD like the HUS or NERD will probably help make your CCR life easier though you'll still have to grit your teeth and move an eye away from the view finder for a moment to use them!!!


A very good idea indeed. Which ties neatly into the next...


My chest area is clear, so the unit doesn't interfere with my camera at all.

Its having stuff like this in my mind really helps.

So thanks all - much appreciated. And thanks Tamas for the offer...a dip is well overdue. I'm doing a shallowish dive over the next week so a deeper workup would be good very soon. For that I will stick to OC...for now.

JPTaylor
24-03-2015, 07:51 PM
Reaffirmation of same pattern. Some form of in your face display seems like a very good idea.


In all honesty, you only need a basic HUD, the GREEN=GOOD, RED=BAD is all you need, i.e. the Vision HUD. I'd save your money & not bother with a NERD.

A Vision does the job, not silly money, UK based support, get BMCL's if you want a clear chest & possibly get a G_Box to make it look like a JJ. Also Vision has TWO controllers as opposed to the single controller on a JJ, maybe worth considering if promary focus is taking pics. If HUD is GREEN focus on the photography.....

ebt
24-03-2015, 08:39 PM
Putting a camera in a housing and making sure its sealed takes a fair bit of quiet time. I see preparing a rebreather as a similar process, albeit one that costs you a life rather than a few £kkk if you flood a camera...my primary concern is task loading before rather than during a dive. Only one way to find out I guess.


....and in much the same way, you do most of the assembly in the comfort of your home.... preferably with a bottle of red open. That way your work on the day is limited to loading the boat, doing a few checks and ensuring you have speedy access to the biscuits.

dwhitlow
24-03-2015, 08:44 PM
....and in much the same way, you do most of the assembly in the comfort of your home.... preferably with a bottle of red open. That way your work on the day is limited to loading the boat, doing a few checks and ensuring you have speedy access to the biscuits.
... and when there are consecutive days that aren't too deep you have to consider such things as hauling your suit inflation cylinder off the boat (or swapping it with a spare) and filling your crack bottle or replacing a co2 cartridge whilst you watch the OC divers heading to the gas station with cars filled with cylinders. It is not all easy you know! ;)

Bobanderson
26-03-2015, 10:27 AM
It is the shame the inspo isn't ranking higher in the opinion polls here. For my money it sits bang in the middle of Simon's requirements being afordable, bullet proof, has an audible buzzerwhich is good for photography, user frieondly, common as muck, gookd uk based customer support etc. The jj is a lovely unit, bit like an audi next to ap's ford.

I love my unit and would heartily recomend one for photography for the simplevreason of narcosis. I found that photography requires a level of thought that requires a clerer head than normal so i pretty much always have a helium of some kind in my dil. The results are tangible even for shallower than 30m which are traditionally he free zone.

I can see you startingto nip at my toes withyour pictures ifyou head down this route!! :-)

Decosnapper
26-03-2015, 10:32 AM
I can see you starting to nip at my toes with your pictures if you head down this route!! :-)

Competition is healthy.

BTS
26-03-2015, 10:54 AM
It is the shame the inspo isn't ranking higher in the opinion polls here

If they ditch the plastic box and get a decent screen on the controller it would sit alongside the JJ, I think a new controller is in the offing but the box seems to be some form or brand identity so I doubt they will let that go....

nigel hewitt
26-03-2015, 02:20 PM
It is the shame the inspo isn't ranking higher in the opinion polls here.
It's just too ordinary and boring.
It was exotic in its day but it trudges on just going on diving and has acquired the aura of middle age.
It just does what it says on the box. It rebreathes.
Interestingly I am to blame for every bad problem I've had.

I bought it (rebought? I am on my second) because I valued its predictability.
Common as muck so I have swapped spares with other divers on boats to fix things we broke.

Plus I like APD. They are everything I want in a diving supplier.
Not the cheapest shop but things come at once and if there is a problem they fix it.

Mikael
26-03-2015, 02:53 PM
It's just too ordinary and boring.
It was exotic in its day but it trudges on just going on diving and has acquired the aura of middle age.
It just does what it says on the box. It rebreathes.
Interestingly I am to blame for every bad problem I've had.

I bought it (rebought? I am on my second) because I valued its predictability.
Common as muck so I have swapped spares with other divers on boats to fix things we broke.

Plus I like APD. They are everything I want in a diving supplier.
Not the cheapest shop but things come at once and if there is a problem they fix it.

Can you buy it without the BCD with giant pull dump toggles and auto air thingy?

londonsean69
26-03-2015, 03:03 PM
Can you buy it without the BCD with giant pull dump toggles and auto air thingy?

Not new, as it comes CE certified as a unit, to the best of my knowledge.

nickb
26-03-2015, 03:03 PM
Can you buy it without the BCD with giant pull dump toggles and auto air thingy?Would that swing it for you if they did?

Mikael
26-03-2015, 03:20 PM
Would that swing it for you if they did?

If I was in the market for a CCR (I am only rebreather curious for now) this would not factor high in my decision making process though the option would be nice as I would likely wish to switch to backplate and wing.

dwhitlow
26-03-2015, 03:25 PM
Can you buy it without the BCD with giant pull dump toggles and auto air thingy?


Not new, as it comes CE certified as a unit, to the best of my knowledge.

Indeed. A known and tested configuration is sent to CE. Any significant modification would invalidate CE and therefore are not be sanctioned by AP.

After purchase the owner can make any changes they want, whether sensible or not. However, nobody but the owner is responsible for making sure the modifications are safe. If they don't work out then you are on their own.

Bobanderson
26-03-2015, 03:29 PM
I would look into the hud carefully. I had a nan one with 3 led that fittednicely behind the camera whenmy eye was at the view finder. I am not sur the bigger bulk of the other units would do the same. I think the nerd would be a pita behind the camera body. I had no knowledge ofwether they are good or bad as tools, just that they may well just get in te way.

dwhitlow
26-03-2015, 03:35 PM
If I was in the market for a CCR (I am only rebreather curious for now) this would not factor high in my decision making process though the option would be nice as I would likely wish to switch to backplate and wing.
AP aren't fussed if you do make changes and will service the parts without any concern.

I have owned mine for 5 years and serviced lots of parts. However, as a number things needed attention, I took the whole thing to the factory earlier this year and asked them to service anything they felt needed servicing. They were quite happy to service all the bits and put it back together and sent it all back assembled. They were pleased to see the G-box, asked me about a few changes I'd made, suggested an improvement to something I do, gave me the guided tour of the factory and delivered it home to me 10 days later.

Apart from the cell issue (which is now behind us) I have never had cause to fault their service.

SilentDiver
26-03-2015, 04:01 PM
If they ditch the plastic box
It does its job of protecting all the valuable bits tbh and contrary to what some would have you believe it is possible to take it overseas with no trouble at all, although it may be bulky but it is actually lighter than all the travel frames I have ever looked at and it fits nicely into a suitcase :)

The only downside is that it does take a little bit more lead than I would like to sink it but no way would I change it because of that.

Every person I know that has swapped the plastic box for one of the available travel/aftermarket frames has eventually swapped back to a standard set up.



and get a decent screen on the controller it would sit alongside the JJ, I think a new controller is in the offing
That I do agree with.

They have been working on a new HD screen for the last 3 or 4 years.

BTS
26-03-2015, 04:06 PM
It does its job of protecting all the valuable bits tbh and contrary to what some would have you believe it is possible to take it overseas with no trouble at all, although it may be bulky but it is actually lighter than all the travel frames I have ever looked at and it fits nicely into a suitcase :)

The only downside is that it does take a little bit more lead than I would like to sink it but no way would I change it because of that.

Every person I know that has swapped the plastic box for one of the available travel/aftermarket frames has eventually swapped back to a standard set up.



A little lead was three kilos in my case that I lost from my belt, I have never gone back to the plastic box, It holds water when you climb a ladder, the bottom cracks, the bolts pull through, the clips break and come undone...

For more negs than pos

As for the screen... 3 or 4 years???? doing what? The screens exist, they have existed for longer than four years...

Decosnapper
26-03-2015, 04:20 PM
...I had a nan one with 3 led that fittednicely behind the camera whenmy eye was at the view finder. I am not sur the bigger bulk of the other units would do the same. I think the nerd would be a pita behind the camera body. I had no knowledge ofwether they are good or bad as tools, just that they may well just get in the way.

I use a magnifying viewfinder. This steps the eyepiece 60mm away from the back of the housing. It means your mask isn't jammed into the back of the housing when composing an image.

Perhaps this might be a good match for a HUD of some sort?

nigel hewitt
26-03-2015, 04:40 PM
The disco lights and the new HUS are pretty much a nose level.
The loop projects a bit more than a regulator but not being more than a point-and-shoot photographer my opinion lacks gravitas.
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/inspiration/hus.jpg

ARJAYM
26-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Can you buy it without the BCD with giant pull dump toggles and auto air thingy?

It has a wing mikael not bcd !

Mikael
26-03-2015, 07:15 PM
It has a wing mikael not bcd !

To be pedantic a wing is a type of buoyancy control device

Bobanderson
26-03-2015, 07:18 PM
I use a magnifying viewfinder. This steps the eyepiece 60mm away from the back of the housing. It means your mask isn't jammed into the back of the housing when composing an image.

Perhaps this might be a good match for a HUD of some sort?

I think there are two things to consider

1 physical space

With a standard viewfinder and a nan hud, the camera was a nice fit to my mask allowing good use of the viewfinder for composing pics

2 awareness

The nan hud plinks 3 green flashes when all is well. Mozt of the time it doesn't regiter on a concious level but when the wequence chanes than the brain swaps focus from the viewfinder to the hud. I think if the info was any more complex, eg the nerd, then the brain ight not be ablevto fully dwal eith the two differing strems of info. Nigels setup illustrated above streams data intoboth eyes so wouldn't work for me because i want my right eye to be makinv pictures (dahrling!).

There is another way to considrr the queztion... which photographers ae on ccr and what do they use? Steve jones is about the best there is an he's on an inspo. Some of the norwegisn guys are on gooey-ed jjs and they take some wonderful images too.

I'm on a classic but i'm tight or it prob would be a vision. Or a jj at a push. But then i really like ap. But then there is that harness. But ap are brilliant. And i'm shite at looking after things and ap are bullet proof. My trim is shite cos i kneel down to take most pics. And so on...!

There's your conundrum!!!

Major Clanger
26-03-2015, 11:18 PM
Copy a professional:

http://www.divesolutions.co.uk/index.php

He uses a JJ, in the main and a meg prior to that for their simplicity and versatility.

dwhitlow
26-03-2015, 11:25 PM
Copy a professional:

http://www.divesolutions.co.uk/index.php

He uses a JJ, in the main and a meg prior to that for their simplicity and versatility.

But when he did my mod 1 he was diving a Sentinel and I was on an Inspo :)

Major Clanger
26-03-2015, 11:28 PM
But when he did my mod 1 he was diving a Sentinel and I was on an Inspo :)

When Noah ran a dive boat ;) Clearly an evolutionary process in search of excellence.

Mikael
26-03-2015, 11:31 PM
nan hud

Assuming this has nothing to do with an elderly relative, what is a nan heads up display?

dwhitlow
26-03-2015, 11:31 PM
When Noah ran a dive boat ;) Clearly an evolutionary process in search of excellence.

Lack of CE kept his jj at home :)

Major Clanger
26-03-2015, 11:33 PM
Lack of CE kept his jj at home :)

Lack of CE on my unit meant I trained with him in the Canaries. Very nice it was too.

MikeF
26-03-2015, 11:51 PM
Assuming this has nothing to do with an elderly relative, what is a nan heads up display?

narked at ninety HUD

http://www.narkedat90.com/coax_hud_p/coaxhud.htm

Bobanderson
27-03-2015, 08:06 AM
Copy a professional:

http://www.divesolutions.co.uk/index.php

He uses a JJ, in the main and a meg prior to that for their simplicity and versatility.

Did the first pioneers not conquer the early peaks with classics? I am pretty sure there were two handsets on most of those early pushes? Refinement came later as technology advanced, illustrating nicely the central dilema at the core of the op!

notdeadyet
27-03-2015, 09:22 AM
But when he did my mod 1 he was diving a Sentinel and I was on an Inspo :)
When I first met him he was on a single 12 and a pony.

He was on a Classic for years before he became a southerner.

notdeadyet
27-03-2015, 09:27 AM
Did the first pioneers not conquer the early peaks with classics? I am pretty sure there were two handsets on most of those early pushes? Refinement came later as technology advanced, illustrating nicely the central dilema at the core of the op!
Nah, they were using Mk15s and 15.5s. And proper Cis Lunars.

Then AP invented rebreathers ten years later :)

rongoodman
27-03-2015, 10:48 AM
I can't say I've been all that impressed with support from Hollis, but I like my Prism 2. It's the first RB I've had, and I don't have experience with other units to compare it with though. WOB seems good in any position, and the small CL reduce the chest clutter. They have announced back-mounted lungs, but I don't know if they exist yet(Hollis seems to make a habit of announcing improvements long before they're ready).

SilentDiver
27-03-2015, 04:44 PM
A little lead was three kilos in my case that I lost from my belt, I have never gone back to the plastic box, It holds water when you climb a ladder, the bottom cracks, the bolts pull through, the clips break and come undone...

For more negs than pos

All diving kit holds some water as you climb a ladder that isnt just an AP problem :)

Every unit I have had I fitted a KT base too and never had one crack yet, although I agree it does happen to more units than not.

Bolts pulling through with the exception of a few people on here all the units I have seen that happen to have had a 5-6Kg SS backplate added to it which is something the plastic case was never designed to cope with. So far with 10+ AP units in our club I have never seen it happen to any of them and all the units are standard with the only exception being a couple with KT Bases and lift handles fitted to them.



As for the screen... 3 or 4 years???? doing what? The screens exist, they have existed for longer than four years...

As I said above I totally agree with you about the handset screen, although they did have the cell problem to deal with and I know that took priority for them so hopefully a new HD screen will be available soon.

BTS
27-03-2015, 05:18 PM
]

Every unit I have had I fitted a KT base too and never had one crack yet, although I agree it does happen to more units than not.


But why should you have to fit a reinforced base? Surely they can and should have dealt with that issue....

Doomanic
27-03-2015, 05:21 PM
As I said above I totally agree with you about the handset screen, although they did have the cell problem to deal with and I know that took priority for them so hopefully a new HD screen will be available soon.I'd be surprised to see a new handset now they have the HUS to flog as an add-on.

Major Clanger
28-03-2015, 07:36 AM
Damn, the SF2 ECCR looks good. Just add HUD






Sent from my ivory tower using Tapatalk

Kieran Hatton
30-03-2015, 08:52 AM
Hi Simon

If you would like to test the inspo and JJ-CCR back to back then drop me a line and we can put a try dive together no problem.

I've used both with a camera and (sadly) can say that neither unit impacts my ability to not use a camera!

Both travel pretty well but if you are traveling with an slr camera too that is another thing to think about, with some airlines it is nearly impossible, especially if it is cold water.

The inspo price is very stable, the JJ obviously fluctuates with the euro but it is still good at the moment, the units work out £400-500 cheaper than the end of last year. I guess it would be a work tool for you too so if you are VAT registered that will also help.

I don't think you would go wrong with either.

Atb

Kieran

Decosnapper
30-03-2015, 05:47 PM
Thanks for the offer Kieran. I will be in touch when ready...

Mikael
30-03-2015, 06:52 PM
Damn, the SF2 ECCR looks good. Just add HUD

Sent from my ivory tower using Tapatalk

With the counter lung in the lower half of the case I wonder what the WOB would be like if upright?

MikeF
30-03-2015, 07:46 PM
shit

notdeadyet
30-03-2015, 08:10 PM
shit

If it's anything like an RB80 clone then it won't even be that good.

londonsean69
30-03-2015, 08:53 PM
If it's anything like an RB80 clone then it won't even be that good.

I can confirm that - instant hamster cheeks :)

Mark Chase
31-03-2015, 09:51 AM
Hi Simon

If you would like to test the inspo and JJ-CCR back to back then drop me a line and we can put a try dive together no problem.

I've used both with a camera and (sadly) can say that neither unit impacts my ability to not use a camera!

Both travel pretty well but if you are traveling with an slr camera too that is another thing to think about, with some airlines it is nearly impossible, especially if it is cold water.

The inspo price is very stable, the JJ obviously fluctuates with the euro but it is still good at the moment, the units work out £400-500 cheaper than the end of last year. I guess it would be a work tool for you too so if you are VAT registered that will also help.

I don't think you would go wrong with either.

Atb

Kieran



Not in terms of baggage allowance they dont



On the left is a Cabin Max overhead locker bag with my JJ in that cost me £0.00 in excess baggage on Eazy Jet

On the right is the 5kg plastic box with 24kg of Inspo in it which cost £160 in excess baggage on the same flight

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/AAA%20talk/IMG_3491_zps6dc294d4.jpg

iamyourgasman
31-03-2015, 12:06 PM
The rEvo mini with the handle off fits perfectly in the overhead locker. This was how I took the unit to Egypt last year and many others have travelled like this. The microFT is even smaller and in titanium, much lighter. So much so you would need lead to sink. With my SS mini I don't need to use any lead in the UK with a membrane suit and BZ400

germie
31-03-2015, 12:06 PM
With the counter lung in the lower half of the case I wonder what the WOB would be like if upright?

Bad. I have dived an sf2 once, in good trim it is ok, but upright it is heavy breathing. Further it is really stable and easy to dive. But an inspo is not too difficult too.

Mark Chase
31-03-2015, 03:04 PM
The rEvo mini with the handle off fits perfectly in the overhead locker. This was how I took the unit to Egypt last year and many others have travelled like this. The microFT is even smaller and in titanium, much lighter. So much so you would need lead to sink. With my SS mini I don't need to use any lead in the UK with a membrane suit and BZ400


People tell me this but my rEvo mini just wouldent fit into any OHL bag i tried the rounded corners of the bag wouldent let it but frankly the dimensions of the unit were at max bag dimensions anyway

Some put a canvus slip over the unit its self and used the harness as a ruck sack type suport but its prety hard to hide the weight of it and you will get stoped. With the bag i have actualy slipped it on as a 5KG max alowance dispite its 18Kg in the bag weight

ATB

Mark

Kieran Hatton
31-03-2015, 03:38 PM
I tend to travel with a camera so my rebreather is always in the hold. To be honest even when I don't have the camera it goes in the hold.

If I have a 32kg bag for the hold I find either equally easy to travel with, but I don't use a crate.

If it is a 23kg bag I think the inspo may be slightly easier.

20kg is a pain with anything.

They are just my experiences.

nickb
31-03-2015, 05:30 PM
This is a complete JJ in a Peli 1610 case, the stand has been removed and is under the backplate along with the wing and counterlungs and all the hoses.

I now use a bone-shaped aluminium backplate and it comes in at just under 23kg.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4996887/jj-packed.jpg

Gareth J
31-03-2015, 06:46 PM
It's just too ordinary and boring.
It was exotic in its day but it trudges on just going on diving and has acquired the aura of middle age.
It just does what it says on the box. It rebreathes.
Interestingly I am to blame for every bad problem I've had.

I bought it (rebought? I am on my second) because I valued its predictability.
Common as muck so I have swapped spares with other divers on boats to fix things we broke.

Plus I like APD. They are everything I want in a diving supplier.
Not the cheapest shop but things come at once and if there is a problem they fix it.


My unit is coming up on 10 years old (delivered June 2005). It was one of the early visions.

Granted I don't dive as much as I would like, and work put a serious crimp in my diving for a while.
In all the time I have had the unit, parts of it have been back 3 times.

1. The head was replaced very early on due to a problem - free of charge.
2. The hoses and counterlungs went back about 3 years ago because I was suffering breathing problems, AP asked for it back. All tested free of charge, I paid for the new (engraved type) O2 and Dil inflation buttons to be fitted at the same time - just the cost of the parts.
3. I sent the head back in February to have a new display fitted, it had died overnight in the garage :(.

It's let me down
once in Plymouth, I had a cell failure and had the wrong spare O2 cell in the spares kit.
once at Chepstow O2 cell problems last year. (warm up dives)
once at Guildenburg O2 cell problems last year. (kit testing)

With the O2 cell problems they had last year AP looked after me and sent me a bag of spare cells for my Anglesey and Malin head trips I had during the summer. I offered to pay for the cells in advance on the basis of a refund when I sent them back, they said no, and just lent me the cells and then exchanged the bad cells that failed under warranty for the new type when they where available.

Yes its a big(ish) unit, yes I'm not diving it to extremes as I originally expected. I tend to dive the unit all the time rather than swap back and forth to OC, other than when I go overseas for a 'scuba' holiday or if I'm teaching and its not fair on the students (or appropriate).
It is heavy if I want to take it overseas, Its been to the Red Sea, and I keep promising myself to take it to Malta to do some of the deeper dives.

As Nigel says, it does what it says on the tin, and AP support has been excellent over the years.

What would I buy if I had to replace it tomorrow, don't know. I haven't 'kept in the loop' over what is available. I have friends who dive Sentinals, but the units seem to spend all their time at Vobster, but then my friends are known to be hard on kit. The other Vision that is in the club seems to tick along without problems, the owner has now had two, sold the first because he didn't think he could justify a unit, then bought another one 6 months later because he missed diving it so much :).

Mine has minimal modifications, backplate fitted rather than the horrible AP harness, and a regulator replacing the Air2. The counterlung inflation buttons changed for the more modern coloured / engraved versions. Until February that was the total modification/upgrade that the unit had had. It now has the new O2 solenoid, rather than the original and a new display :(.

Gareth

notdeadyet
31-03-2015, 08:16 PM
Pah. Mine is pushing 40 years old now. Wouldn't swap it for one of those new fangled Inspos that have been around about ten minutes :)

iamyourgasman
01-04-2015, 10:59 AM
People tell me this but my rEvo mini just wouldent fit into any OHL bag i tried the rounded corners of the bag wouldent let it but frankly the dimensions of the unit were at max bag dimensions anyway

Some put a canvus slip over the unit its self and used the harness as a ruck sack type suport but its prety hard to hide the weight of it and you will get stoped. With the bag i have actualy slipped it on as a 5KG max alowance dispite its 18Kg in the bag weight

ATB

Mark

Hi Mark,

I only put a hi-viz rucksack cover on it and used the harness as straps. Now I have finally managed to get a proper OPH so "concealing" the unit would be even easier as I can take off the d-rings from the harness if wanted to. I have also flown with EasyJet so weight wasn't an issue. Would need to rethink if flying with other "low-cost" airlines but if there is a will, there is a way.
If someone travels a lot then the microFT titanium with a NERD and a revodream backup makes a lot of sense.
The JJ is certainly a good looking unit all of the ones mentioned here are more than capable of doing the diving Simon wants to do.

ebt
01-04-2015, 11:18 AM
Pah. Mine is pushing 40 years old now.

....and still in better shape than its operator ;)

notdeadyet
01-04-2015, 11:24 AM
....and still in better shape than its operator ;)
It's not the years, it's the miles :)

Cold_diver
03-04-2015, 11:33 AM
I originally got into diving because I found the Megalodon online and thought it was a pretty impressive unit. I'm now tempted by the JJ as well, also looks an impressive unit, perhaps a little more contemporary than the Meg. I'm still on open circuit but those 2 units are the ones that lure me to the dark side.

nigel hewitt
03-04-2015, 11:49 AM
Pah. Mine is pushing 40 years old now. Wouldn't swap it for one of those new fangled Inspos that have been around about ten minutes :)
I bid 50 years
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/ida64/dive2.jpg

MarkP
03-04-2015, 04:12 PM
I bid 50 years
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/ida64/dive2.jpgWas it its age that brought on the wide-eyed startled look?

Damienbt
07-04-2015, 08:48 PM
Poseidon se7en not mentioned.

Doomanic
07-04-2015, 08:58 PM
Is that because it's not a serious contender?

Damienbt
07-04-2015, 09:35 PM
JJ, AP and revo seem to be ones most spoken about. Was just seeing if anyone rated the poseidon.

MikeF
07-04-2015, 09:39 PM
I bid 50 years
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/ida64/dive2.jpg


Was it its age that brought on the wide-eyed startled look?

or was it fear?

nigel hewitt
07-04-2015, 09:53 PM
JJ, AP and revo seem to be ones most spoken about. Was just seeing if anyone rated the poseidon.
I think it's more that recommendations imply availability and track record. That cuts down the field a lot.
The most brilliant rebreather ever might just be being launched but we'll only know that with hindsight. These three are the ones we have just seen over the years and continue to see.
The big problem is that few of us have dived more than one type. I have dived with JJs and rEvos but never dived one.
Anyway we all like what we have. I am pretty much certain my AP Inspo is the best rebreather for me but I can't use that as an argument to insist it would be the best for you.
Of course if you say it isn't the best I know you're an idiot but I would hardly be so impolite as to point this out on TDF. :)

Damienbt
07-04-2015, 10:01 PM
I think it's more that recommendations imply availability and track record. That cuts down the field a lot.
The most brilliant rebreather ever might just be being launched but we'll only know that with hindsight. These three are the ones we have just seen over the years and continue to see.
The big problem is that few of us have dived more than one type. I have dived with JJs and rEvos but never dived one.
Anyway we all like what we have. I am pretty much certain my AP Inspo is the best rebreather for me but I can't use that as an argument to insist it would be the best for you.
Of course if you say it isn't the best I know you're an idiot but I would hardly be so impolite as to point this out on TDF. :)

I don't own a rebreather myself but I'm in the same boat as the OP interested potential new buyer! So any and all information and views appreciated. I'm enjoying the read. Even the slightly off topic GUE conversations!

Barrygoss
07-04-2015, 10:33 PM
I don't own a rebreather myself but I'm in the same boat as the OP interested potential new buyer! So any and all information and views appreciated. I'm enjoying the read. Even the slightly off topic GUE conversations!

The Poseidon and the inspo rec are units designed for padi's courses. They are basic units with functionality removed in order to make them idiot proof.
The Fischer price of rebreather.
Due to the fact it's supposed to be idiot proof the training (that bit what keeps you alive when stuff goes a bit wrong) is seriously truncated

Trouble is on a per unit basis the Poseidon seems to have attracted a better class of idiot.
Poorer training, same risks.

The unit is ok. A bit nanny state for most (as it does all its own checks then tells you when it's ready to dive. But being pushed by lots of shops as the markup is several £k per unit

B

Mark Chase
08-04-2015, 06:00 AM
The P7 may well be a great unit but its too early to tell

One thing is for sure getting hold of the scrubber canistrers is both expensive and dificult which would lead you to suspect its not an ideal travel unit. I am not too sure about the range of tanks it can dive which again makes travel limited. The P6 had a bit of an issue with throwing pre dive set up glitches into the mix on a far too regular basis. I hope they sorted that on the P7

On the up side its a very light unit

On the down side I have still to see a P6 or P7 on a dive boat. I have only seen try dive sesions

In the same vane as the P6/7 the new Prisum looks great, but again its too new to tell

ATB

Mark

Major Clanger
08-04-2015, 06:51 AM
JJ, AP and revo seem to be ones most spoken about. Was just seeing if anyone rated the poseidon.

Tony Baskeyfield, a professional photographer, uses a Poseidon and gets on well with it. Take some of the prejudiced comments on here with a pinch of salt. No one's mentioned any ISC rebreathers either, but by far one of the best built and easy to use systems suited to photography, particularly the pathfinder and it's got a 5 hour scrubber in Scapa type conditions; a front runner in terms of reduced weight, size and general fucking about with it.







Sent from my ivory tower using Tapatalk

diverjoe
08-04-2015, 07:33 PM
My Poseidon Mk6 has started up every dive about 60 so far no problem only dived to 43mts so no deep stuff yet, I pack my own scrubber it takes 2.6kg of lime. I only have a manual add on dill side at the moment. Of course it's not for every body

Mark Chase
08-04-2015, 09:45 PM
My Poseidon Mk6 has started up every dive about 60 so far no problem only dived to 43mts so no deep stuff yet, I pack my own scrubber it takes 2.6kg of lime. I only have a manual add on dill side at the moment. Of course it's not for every body


If it's any good why wouldn't it be for anybody?


The P6 is frankly a stupid macheen a bit like a Ferrari with a speed limiter on it, but the P7 could possably be a good unit


ATB


Mark

Barrygoss
09-04-2015, 07:07 AM
If it's any good why wouldn't it be for anybody?


The P6 is frankly a stupid macheen a bit like a Ferrari with a speed limiter on it, but the P7 could possably be a good unit


ATB


Mark

Mark,

A P7 is a P6 with can bus electrics including bluetooth and a flashy cover (and a mouthpiece "upgrade" that should have been done for free as it's fixes the fact the OC switch can pop out of OC to CC).

They've stopped doing the upgrade and those Mk6 owners I know, haven't bothered with it anyway as the cost was a couple of grand for no real improvement.

It operates the same battery system that starts with 40m no deco rec version and you get a new battery with each course and it still takes cassette scrubbers.

They're just pushing it as a technical unit, rather than as the rec unit, as the rec idea stalled.


B

Mark Chase
09-04-2015, 07:28 AM
Mark,

A P7 is a P6 with can bus electrics including bluetooth and a flashy cover (and a mouthpiece "upgrade" that should have been done for free as it's fixes the fact the OC switch can pop out of OC to CC).

They've stopped doing the upgrade and those Mk6 owners I know, haven't bothered with it anyway as the cost was a couple of grand for no real improvement.

It operates the same battery system that starts with 40m no deco rec version and you get a new battery with each course and it still takes cassette scrubbers.

They're just pushing it as a technical unit, rather than as the rec unit, as the rec idea stalled.


B


I thaught there were a few other improvements on the dedicated P7s but what ever your just reconfirming my point. A P6 is a daft idea but a P7 or a P6upgraded to a P7 COULD be a good unit. I have no feeling either way as i dont know enough about them but I do know id want a loose fill scrubber.

ATB

Mark

Doomanic
09-04-2015, 07:35 AM
I think it's only got 2 cells as well.

Mark Chase
09-04-2015, 07:47 AM
I think it's only got 2 cells as well.


You'd have to trust the science with that issue (as a bit of a ludite i am not a fan) but I am more interested in manual 02 inject and dill injct which I dont think the P6 had and a unit that has no limits on its use

Barrygoss
09-04-2015, 08:17 AM
You'd have to trust the science with that issue (as a bit of a ludite i am not a fan) but I am more interested in manual 02 inject and dill injct which I dont think the P6 had and a unit that has no limits on its use

Both the Mk6 and 7 as sold as rec units are without manual O2 and dil inject. that's the 40m unit, the 40m with deco (air dil) and the 48m unit (deco and weak trimix) each battery requires another course

Then you send the unit (either the P6 or P7) in for upgrade (and pay another lump of cash and course) which gets you the 60m battery, a head with 4 cells (two completely seperate systems, both running two cells and the validation process, with one paddle as display) and the 60m lungs which allow the manual O2 and Dill adds.

The software and limits are the same for both the P6 and the P7 and are only relaxed when you move to the next battery.

As a guide the basic rec unit is £5.3K, the upgrade to 60m cost is £2.5K and you can buy the technical version (60m) for £7.2K new. (plus rec (40m), rec/deco(40m), rec trimix(48m), trimix (60m)) courses at around £500 a pop.

B

notdeadyet
09-04-2015, 10:31 AM
As a guide the basic rec unit is £5.3K, the upgrade to 60m cost is £2.5K and you can buy the technical version (60m) for £7.2K new. (plus rec (40m), rec/deco(40m), rec trimix(48m), trimix (60m)) courses at around £500 a pop.

B

Holyjeezus! And people actually buy into that pyramid scheme?

Mark Chase
09-04-2015, 11:16 AM
Holyjeezus! And people actually buy into that pyramid scheme?


And after all that they are limited to 60m?



"Ill never see me wanting to go below 30m" (Mark Chase about 1990ish)


ATB

Mark

MikeF
09-04-2015, 11:24 AM
"Ill never see me wanting to go below 30m" (Mark Chase about 1990ish)


ATB

Mark

"sorry, you mean I'm supposed to stop when I get to 50m?" (MikeF about 1988ish)

paulnlowry
09-04-2015, 11:31 AM
One of my diving mates, dives with a Mk6, not a bad bit of kit, however, the unit is very much in charge rather than the diver, which I find frightening.

AndrewR
09-04-2015, 12:40 PM
One of my diving mates, dives with a Mk6, not a bad bit of kit, however, the unit is very much in charge rather than the diver, which I find frightening.

I tried one and have to admit at the end of the dive (and for most of it as well) all I could think of was "for crying out loud, let me drive". I wonder if there is a difference between those that have used CCR before and those that haven't as it does appear to be a bit of a Marmite unit

BTS
09-04-2015, 02:59 PM
it does appear to be a bit of a Marmite unit

Well, once you have spunked your cash on it then you have to justify it I suppose ;)

60M lungs....really?!?!!?

I do know a guy who dives a 6, he has it fully spec'ed, I hate to think what that cost but do snigger as I climb into my inspo at <2k including all the upgrades I have given it knowing the only limit is what dil I happen to have strapped on to it that morning....

I found the idea od rec CCR odd but to then by a rec CCR and spend the same amount again to get it up to tec standard is just bizarre...

Though a leading light of the bsac tec tree has said he thinks the way the 7 checks O2 levels is the future... I will take his word on that for now...

notdeadyet
09-04-2015, 04:47 PM
I doubt it's the future. It's just another way to make a flint axe. And a protected one at that so no one else can use it without spunking their profits on licensing.

BTS
09-04-2015, 05:34 PM
I doubt it's the future. It's just another way to make a flint axe. And a protected one at that so no one else can use it without spunking their profits on licensing.

To be fair it is a bit more up to date than majority voting, though I like the simplicity of majority voting....

Logun
09-04-2015, 06:49 PM
To be fair it is a bit more up to date than majority voting, though I like the simplicity of majority voting....

So how does this new system work then?

Doomanic
09-04-2015, 06:55 PM
So how does this new system work then?
The Bluetooth system in the head accesses your account details at Poseidon HQ and checks your balance. If you've bunged them a wedge recently it lets you dive.

GLOC
09-04-2015, 06:58 PM
Do you mean the Mk 6/7 O2 cell validation?

If so, here is a link with some explanation and a white paper to read ;)

http://www.ccrexplorers.com/showthread.php?t=15023

notdeadyet
09-04-2015, 08:18 PM
To be fair it is a bit more up to date than majority voting, though I like the simplicity of majority voting....

I never said it wasn't. But it doesn't mean it's the future. It's Poseidon IP, they aren't going to let anyone else use it without either a fight or a ton of cash and no-one else shows that much interest in shelling out to introduce it into their designs. And it's just another way of using a technology that is already on a ticking clock. I very much doubt it will be seen outside Poseidon's Mattel range of rebreathers.

There's also been a surprising number of people jossing it or having near misses on Poseidons. Can't be that great. I think I'd like to see some real, properly analysed numbers as to whether or not Poseidon's proprietary monitoring system has any benefit or is just a piece of branding.

dwhitlow
10-04-2015, 06:41 AM
Holyjeezus! And people actually buy into that pyramid scheme?
Isn't that what PADI have been doing so well for many years?

'You want to..... ?' 'then you need to do the ..... speciality. We have spaces in 5 minutes if you are free'

Dr Dundee
10-04-2015, 09:14 AM
Back to the original question:
I invested in a rEvo Micro Expedition last summer and I love it. Its very light and simple to operate and maintain.
The dual scruuber setup is very efficient and the NERD is great.

Just completed MOD2/3 and highly recommend the unit.
Its my first rebreather and I looked at as many of the alternatives as I could before I made a decision.

Chris

cathal
10-04-2015, 09:47 AM
Chris a question for you if I may. What exactly is Mod 2/3?

Ruffy
10-04-2015, 09:59 AM
Mod 2 followed by mod 3 ;)

AndrewR
10-04-2015, 10:57 AM
Chris a question for you if I may. What exactly is Mod 2/3?

Training follows a similar pattern to open circuit tec, just different names

Mod 1 - Typically first course. Usually with air or baby trimix. No or limited deco. 40-48m depth
Mod 2 - 60m. Unlimited deco
Mod 3 - 100m.

There is also a BSAC cert called advanced mixed gas CCR which is 80m. I have heard this referred to as Mod2.5

cathal
10-04-2015, 03:36 PM
I'm aware of the various Mod courses its just that I thought from a safety perspective that most training agencies would require that you would need to clock up a certain number of hours at Mod 2 level diving before progressing onto Mod 3 as that's a 100m ticket. Hence the question. In that case if a training agency allows you to do Mod 2/3 back to back in effect your starting your course with the only experience on a CCR is being qualified to dive to 40m and coming out after 2 weeks or 10 days training with a 100M ticket with unlimited decompression. Its a fair bit of a jump in depth and dive run times e.g. its 60M deeper than what you were doing prior to the course.
Or am I interpreting Mod 2/3 incorrectly?

Kermit
10-04-2015, 04:25 PM
I'm aware of the various Mod courses its just that I thought from a safety perspective that most training agencies would require that you would need to clock up a certain number of hours at Mod 2 level diving before progressing onto Mod 3 as that's a 100m ticket. Hence the question. In that case if a training agency allows you to do Mod 2/3 back to back in effect your starting your course with the only experience on a CCR is being qualified to dive to 40m and coming out after 2 weeks or 10 days training with a 100M ticket with unlimited decompression. Its a fair bit of a jump in depth and dive run times e.g. its 60M deeper than what you were doing prior to the course.
Or am I interpreting Mod 2/3 incorrectly?

I may be in the minority here but to me a ticket is just that and has two main uses. 1. Insurance cover. 2. You have been told how to do it (and possibly done it but probably under supervision).

Padi AOW is a 40m ticket. BSAC DL is a 50m ticket. But, I doubt that either agency expect you to go out and do regular dives to 40/50m straight away. BSAC certainly don't. It's always up to the diver to judge what is sensible to do.

notdeadyet
10-04-2015, 06:16 PM
I'm aware of the various Mod courses its just that I thought from a safety perspective that most training agencies would require that you would need to clock up a certain number of hours at Mod 2 level diving before progressing onto Mod 3 as that's a 100m ticket. Hence the question. In that case if a training agency allows you to do Mod 2/3 back to back in effect your starting your course with the only experience on a CCR is being qualified to dive to 40m and coming out after 2 weeks or 10 days training with a 100M ticket with unlimited decompression. Its a fair bit of a jump in depth and dive run times e.g. its 60M deeper than what you were doing prior to the course.
Or am I interpreting Mod 2/3 incorrectly?

When I did my trimix cert you went from nitrox diving to a 100m trimix ticket (have to check but I think might have even been in the days where it was unlimited). I'm not sure what the impetus for the (relatively) recent change to a load of intermediate courses was, I'm sure there are probably a load of explanations like "we were reacting to the customers' expectations" rather than "we fancied an extra 500 quid", but in the past you simply transitioned from air to nitrox to trimix or 40m > 50m (tech EAN) > 100m (trimix). I think it was a cleaner, simpler system but I'm no guru so there you go.

I imagine the CCR course structure is simply mirroring the OC tree. The difference between 60m diving and 100m diving is "don't breathe your dil near the surface", if anyone needs an extra 500 quid for that... rebreathers may not be the toy for them.

I am, however, a cynic and any muppet can dive a working rebreather to any depth without much thought or skill.

gordyp
10-04-2015, 06:36 PM
I think (I could be wrong) that it's at the instructors discretion whether to do Mod 2/3 combined depending on past experience and in water skill level.
I'm aware I'm in the minority of people who think that diving O/C to trimix prior to going CCR is a good thing, however it gives you a good grounding of understanding the gases and the stage handling required which is directly transferable to CCR.

Capt Morgan
10-04-2015, 07:28 PM
I think (I could be wrong) that it's at the instructors discretion whether to do Mod 2/3 combined depending on past experience and in water skill level.
I'm aware I'm in the minority of people who think that diving O/C to trimix prior to going CCR is a good thing, however it gives you a good grounding of understanding the gases and the stage handling required which is directly transferable to CCR.

I think I'm in the same minority.
I found having my OC trimix was a great stepping stone to CCR.
It's hard to say that I'd advise people to take the OC route to
CCR diving because of the costs involved but I feel it helped me.
My first CCR course left me able to dive trimix

cathal
10-04-2015, 07:41 PM
I'd agree with the views about OC Trimix being helpful with the transition to CCR as I found that as well but I can't see the sense in students transitioning from mod 1 direct to mod 3 in one course.

Simon TW
11-04-2015, 05:48 AM
I'd agree with the views about OC Trimix being helpful with the transition to CCR as I found that as well but I can't see the sense in students transitioning from mod 1 direct to mod 3 in one course.

It depends on the student and the circumstances. Lets say that you're an experienced trimix OC diver and you're a regular diver, several times a month. Now you buy a CCR and do a recreational mix course with 45 to 48 meters in depth. You get your hours up and experience on the unit. Now you want to progress does 12 to 15 meters deeper seem worth it for a Normoxic course?

Different agencies have different pre-requisites, different courses and different standards. There are plenty of folk who want the mix ticket for bragging rights in their clubs and others who want to understand how to dive deeper safely as they do the diving.

A great example would be a cast in stone policy of 50 hours from user to Normoxic. Two people attend the course, one has done 50 hours over the last 5 years one done 50 in the last nine months. Both could go to Hypoxic with one agency.

Another example is two students attend the same course one has done 100 hours in his local quarry in another has done 50 hours in the sea. The quarry guy can go to Hypoxic with another agency but the sea diver stays at Normoxic to gain experience.

If you read the agency standards then it's possible for some who meet the criteria to get your mix card on your user course but they expect you to get 20 dives in before you run on mix.

Bobanderson
11-04-2015, 06:36 AM
Last weekend there we 9 divers on the boat, 1 oc, 1 jj, 2 classics and the rest visions. As a sample of unit choices, this would be about par. No one missed dive for kit reasons and one of the inspo divers was weilding an slr camera to good effect. In terms of the op, ccr can compliment diving witb a camera and the pool oc units from whicb divers actually choose is not as expansive as the nu?ber of jnits on themarket. That is not to knock any units per se, just to offer an observation oc whatvactually crosses the deck.

Secondarily, those divers that undergo thorough courses witb good instructors seem to hone their skillset with greater confidence and progress better than those selftaught. The better instructors seem to naturally develop a working relationshipwitb their alumni so that they are on hand to answer any developing questions. For those reading that mod 3s etc are easy peasy and not worth the money, consideration ofthis second observation would be worthy.

Decosnapper
11-04-2015, 07:56 AM
All of this is really helpful...cheers all.

Mark Chase
11-04-2015, 02:03 PM
I used to be in the camp that my trimix OC background was important but 11 ccr years later I now see it as irelevent

Wish id gone CCR streight after twinset nitrox.

All my severl years on OC trimix did for my CCR diving was push me to dive much too deep much too quickly

Beleiveing my OC skills would somehow provide a fall back position when it all went wrong was nieve and I dived with an OC mind set and exposed my self to risks I shouldent have done.


Dive a CCR with a CCR mind set

Lern CCR skills (including OC bailout and stage handling) on a CCR as its NOT the same as OC.

If you dive CCR and like it you wont go back to OC.

Thease days I think about my diveing atumnul years in terms of a cheep simple unit like the KISS rather than reverting to OC

EIther that or it will just be single tank holiday diving.

ATB

Mark

Jackdiver
11-04-2015, 02:43 PM
I went CCR from a single, I don't think I'm missing anything having not done OC trimix or any Twinset stuff.

matt
11-04-2015, 03:50 PM
I went CCR from a single, I don't think I'm missing anything having not done OC trimix or any Twinset stuff.

You missed a lot. Particularly the lugging of kit, the big gas bills and general experience of wondering if you really do have enough gas. :-)

Matt.

Hot Totty
12-04-2015, 07:37 AM
Not wanting to trawl through 16 pages but has anyone suggested the Apoc - probably all you'll ever need :devil:

nigel hewitt
12-04-2015, 10:15 AM
Not wanting to trawl through 16 pages but has anyone suggested the Apoc - probably all you'll ever need :devil:
Wonderful.
Tried and tested over the years since it was first announced I assume.
First class safety record with zero reported problems.
From the team you know you can trust.

Mark Chase
12-04-2015, 05:23 PM
Not wanting to trawl through 16 pages but has anyone suggested the Apoc - probably all you'll ever need :devil:


Not being funny but the Apoc 02 unit with the Narked @90 pod on it (making it MCCR) is a great unit for travel super compact and light weight and because you can get a loose lime can for it its economical to dive

I wasnt too keen on the BOV or the manual 02inject button but the rest of the unit I thaught was great.

ATB

Mark

Steve C
12-04-2015, 05:53 PM
Chris a question for you if I may. What exactly is Mod 2/3?

5 days of "fun" with Dave Cooper :8):

gordyp
07-07-2015, 04:35 PM
Just noticed a Revo III for sale for under £3k. 5 cells, shearwater controller and Revo Dream display with HUD. Lot of unit for the money.

ebt
07-07-2015, 07:39 PM
5 days of "fun" with Dave Cooper :8):

Not any more, sadly. Coops has hung up his fins and jumps out of planes for a laugh now. Personally I reckon its because he cant hold a stop*


*humour, for those who are a bit challenged.