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Ron MacRae
29-09-2014, 06:23 PM
I'm just back from an excellent week's diving in Scapa. I was diving with a guy who had a very old VR3 and I had a HelO2. Basic dive plan was 1st person to 15mins time to surface (TTS) calls the dive.

It seemed to me that he tended to get to 15 mins TTS first but also ended up clear to surface before me. I'm aware the Helo2 doesn't include the 3min safety stop in the TTS, i.e. it counts down to zero and then goes back to 3, but even allowing for that, I was calling the dive at 12 mins TTS, I was still last person to clear. We were both doing our own deep stops at different depths.

I notice that my old Vitec had 3 personal settings, P0 to P2, and the Helo2 has 5, P-2 to P+2.

Anyone know if P0 on the Vitek is similar to P0 on the HelO2?

I'm tempted to set the personal setting to P-1 but this is based on absolutely no understanding on how safe this is?

Anyone got a clue?

Ron.

Paulo
29-09-2014, 06:25 PM
Get a Petrel, problem sorted :D

Baron015
29-09-2014, 06:27 PM
I'm just back from an excellent week's diving in Scapa. I was diving with a guy who had a very old VR3 and I had a HelO2. Basic dive plan was 1st person to 15mins time to surface (TTS) calls the dive.

It seemed to me that he tended to get to 15 mins TTS first but also ended up clear to surface before me. I'm aware the Helo2 doesn't include the 3min safety stop in the TTS, i.e. it counts down to zero and then goes back to 3, but even allowing for that, I was calling the dive at 12 mins TTS, I was still last person to clear. We were both doing our own deep stops at different depths.

I notice that my old Vitec had 3 personal settings, P0 to P2, and the Helo2 has 5, P-2 to P+2.

Anyone know if P0 on the Vitek is similar to P0 on the HelO2?

I'm tempted to set the personal setting to P-1 but this is based on absolutely no understanding on how safe this is?

Anyone got a clue?

Ron.

I used to have a HelO2 for my OC tmx diving. I had it set to P-2 at all times, for probably around a hundred deco dives. I'm still here :) and at the time I quite liked the constantly moving ceiling deco rather than doing 3m stops.

Then I sold it and got an OSTC. Then a Petrel. I can at least see both of those. The LCD style was too hard once I needed glasses. And 3m stops much much easier on CCR rather than the moving ceiling affair.

Mark Chase
29-09-2014, 06:28 PM
VR3s are very old school with pyle stops and Bhulman deco and they are a bit on the soft side for deco but if I were on a budget id dive them again no problem. Did some of my deepest and longest dives on VR3s and never had an issue

Hel02 is a baffeling computer (in terms of the profiles it genorates) that I wouldn't want to pay good money for.


Get a Shearwater Persuit mono screen.

350 should get you a second hand one and that does proper deco

ATB

Mark

Doomanic
29-09-2014, 07:59 PM
Can anyone say Ratio Deco? ;)

gobfish1
29-09-2014, 08:03 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fns.suunto.com%2FManuals%2FHelO2%2 FUserguides%2FSuunto_HelO2_UserGuide_EN.pdf&ei=XLkpVLCVMtLkasjRgrgB&usg=AFQjCNH99FYiljNQYyOTjarOF-mjHYH_6w&bvm=bv.76247554,d.d2s&cad=rja

page 53

if you want more time you need to up your game . P-2 :D

iv posted this be4 , if the helo2 is like the Vitek , you can not get on the o2 till your above 6m about 5.7m if i remember right ,

so slows you down , if you put 96/97% and not 100% you can the hit the 02 deco at 6m save you some more time , and maybe more cake lol

dwhitlow
29-09-2014, 08:04 PM
I'm just back from an excellent week's diving in Scapa. I was diving with a guy who had a very old VR3 and I had a HelO2. Basic dive plan was 1st person to 15mins time to surface (TTS) calls the dive.

It seemed to me that he tended to get to 15 mins TTS first but also ended up clear to surface before me. I'm aware the Helo2 doesn't include the 3min safety stop in the TTS, i.e. it counts down to zero and then goes back to 3, but even allowing for that, I was calling the dive at 12 mins TTS, I was still last person to clear. We were both doing our own deep stops at different depths.

I notice that my old Vitec had 3 personal settings, P0 to P2, and the Helo2 has 5, P-2 to P+2.

Anyone know if P0 on the Vitek is similar to P0 on the HelO2?

I'm tempted to set the personal setting to P-1 but this is based on absolutely no understanding on how safe this is?

Anyone got a clue?

Ron.
I used to dive a VR3. For dive planning I used the Suunto dive planner with p-2 and that gave me the same stops, apart the deep stops being a couple of metres different. I dived those profiles for a while without issue.

nickb
29-09-2014, 08:48 PM
I did all of my early deco diving with a VR3 and learnt to get around its shortcomings, e.g. it requiring an extended hang at 24m when it knew I could switch gas at 21m. I'd dive with one tomorrow if I had to, but I'd happily ignore its deep stops.

I have no idea what a HelO2 would ask of me, save that it purports to incorporate some sort of RGBM model which, if you've ever tried to read any of Bruce Weinke's books, is some sort of voodoo.

I know exactly what a Shearwater or OSTC is telling me and, more to the point, I can tell it what I want it to tell me, if that makes sense.

Without wishing to sound patronising, it appears that you need to learn more about decompression theory. Adopting a blanket 15 minute TTS for every dive in Scapa, which could be 15m or 45m to the bottom makes little sense.

I assume you've done at least some technical training but I'd recommend reading Mark Powell's Deco for Divers book rather than just blindly following what your computer is telling you to do.

Baron015
29-09-2014, 09:52 PM
Adopting a blanket 15 minute TTS for every dive in Scapa, which could be 15m or 45m to the bottom makes little sense.


Not always. E.g IANTD ART allows max 15 mins of deco with one stage 50%. That's how I dived scapa the first time I went.

(obv. Or less eg didn't hang around on the Tabarka waiting until we finally had 15 mins of accelerated deco to do !!!)

gobfish1
29-09-2014, 10:32 PM
Not always. E.g IANTD ART allows max 15 mins of deco with one stage 50%. That's how I dived scapa the first time I went.

(obv. Or less eg didn't hang around on the Tabarka waiting until we finally had 15 mins of accelerated deco to do !!!)


Tabarka
think you mean in it , lol fab dive ,
15mins deco lol and do dives pay to have this type restriction,s imposed on them or is it free badge you can get on the interweb

only ask as the first time i dived scapa was just after the suunto sml had landed , no nitrox and no fee badge , lucky for me , as we need 30mins deco to wiz round the deeper wreck , s once or twice ,

Stew W
29-09-2014, 10:34 PM
Can anyone say Ratio Deco? ;)

Raito Deku


Not me then

MikeF
29-09-2014, 10:37 PM
lucky bugger first time I dived scapa it was on RNPL tables with a watch and a depth gauge. I seem to recall my buddy was in a wetsuit and strangely didn't really want to do any stops at all.

Baron015
29-09-2014, 10:43 PM
lucky bugger first time I dived scapa it was on RNPL tables with a watch and a depth gauge. I seem to recall my buddy was in a wetsuit and strangely didn't really want to do any stops at all.

A watch, you were lucky to 'ave a watch, we had to count t' seconds, and breathe through lump o' coal ...

Capt Morgan
29-09-2014, 10:49 PM
Tabarka
think you mean in it , lol fab dive ,
15mins deco lol and do dives pay to have this type restriction,s imposed on them or is it free badge you can get on the interweb

only ask as the first time i dived scapa was just after the suunto sml had landed , no nitrox and no fee badge , lucky for me , as we need 30mins deco to wiz round the deeper wreck , s once or twice ,

The SML, now that was a computer and a half.
It was probably better than the 88's for bottom
times and you could do the same dive again
almost straight away :)

gobfish1
29-09-2014, 10:53 PM
lucky bugger first time I dived scapa it was on RNPL tables with a watch and a depth gauge. I seem to recall my buddy was in a wetsuit and strangely didn't really want to do any stops at all.

that will be the year be4 , for are lads . i gave it a miss as i did,nt want to walk the museum. at Lyness for 6hr , between dives JT had a small tub of a boat , fun times .

wetsuits lol i was lucky drybags with no feet had just come out , by 84 i had the sport viking top off the line lol

AndrewRawlingson
29-09-2014, 11:03 PM
I have two HelO2s which suit my diving which I would describe as recreational plus. The algorithm is voodoo. There is guidance in the manual as to personal settings. I compared P-2 from Suunto dive planner to the numbers generated by iDeco and found it surprisingly aggressive, so have stuck with P-1. It's not particularly scientific, but none of this stuff is.

dwhitlow
29-09-2014, 11:06 PM
I have two HelO2s which suit my diving which I would describe as recreational plus. The algorithm is voodoo. There is guidance in the manual as to personal settings. I compared P-2 from Suunto dive planner to the numbers generated by iDeco and found it surprisingly aggressive, so have stuck with P-1. It's not particularly scientific, but none of this stuff is.
as p-2 matches the vr3, the computer which has avoided bending so many divers, you should be pretty safe diving p-1:)

gobfish1
29-09-2014, 11:23 PM
as p-2 matches the vr3, the computer which has avoided bending so many divers, you should be pretty safe diving p-1:)

iv not use a suunto now for i dont know how long , 12 or more years

what,s the chance of knocking me out two tables on p-2

both on air
30m for 60min
and 60m or 30mins

just so i can run them against my desk top ,

lost my old suunto logs , but i know how to match my old PO setting to my planner , so can work from that

thankyou now on the off chance one of you guys post back ,

pm them if you like ,

Ron MacRae
30-09-2014, 08:07 AM
Without wishing to sound patronising, it appears that you need to learn more about decompression theory. Adopting a blanket 15 minute TTS for every dive in Scapa, which could be 15m or 45m to the bottom makes little sense.

I assume you've done at least some technical training but I'd recommend reading Mark Powell's Deco for Divers book rather than just blindly following what your computer is telling you to do.

I've read, and largely understood, Deco for Divers. I agree it's an excellent book on the subject. Yes I've also done a little tech training, although I'm not sure what you'd regard as tec.

15mins TTS and a 50% stage works quite well for most of the deeper wrecks. The shallower stuff was limited by boredom, e.g. we missed the Tabarka and ended up on the Doyle.

My issue is relating the Helo2 personal settings of -2 through +2 and how close to the M value limits these are. How close to the bleeding edge is -2? The manual is pretty unspecific on how agressive -2 is.

It seems several people dive on -1 or -2 so perhaps I might try -1.

nickb
30-09-2014, 08:12 AM
Is there a dive planning function? If so, run some typical profiles with varying 'safety' factors and compare those against something like MultiDeco

dwhitlow
30-09-2014, 08:16 AM
iv not use a suunto now for i dont know how long , 12 or more years

what,s the chance of knocking me out two tables on p-2

both on air
30m for 60min
and 60m or 30mins

Not sure I'd want to run either of those profiles.....

I ran them at p-2, with twin 16s, SAC 15lpm and last stop at 4.5m (can do 3m or 6m)

60 minutes at 30m gave 2 hours 40 minute using 7424 litres of tyre gas
30 minutes at 60m gave 3 hours 3 minutes using 6686 litres of tyre gas

SDM not willing to give anything more useful than .xps file so will PM the results....

dwhitlow
30-09-2014, 08:31 AM
60 minutes at 30m ...

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac285/dnw_bucket/Screenshot2014-09-30092226_zpsccc19a2d.png

30 minutes at 60m ...

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac285/dnw_bucket/Screenshot2014-09-30092327_zps01c72892.png

dwhitlow
30-09-2014, 08:37 AM
Is there a dive planning function? If so, run some typical profiles with varying 'safety' factors and compare those against something like MultiDecoI have it on my laptop. Looking at the weather forecast, we will be able to spend a few joyful hours on Monday watching the horizontal rain and comparing dive profiles...

jturner
30-09-2014, 09:58 AM
I've read, and largely understood, Deco for Divers. I agree it's an excellent book on the subject. Yes I've also done a little tech training, although I'm not sure what you'd regard as tec.

15mins TTS and a 50% stage works quite well for most of the deeper wrecks. The shallower stuff was limited by boredom, e.g. we missed the Tabarka and ended up on the Doyle.

My issue is relating the Helo2 personal settings of -2 through +2 and how close to the M value limits these are. How close to the bleeding edge is -2? The manual is pretty unspecific on how agressive -2 is.

It seems several people dive on -1 or -2 so perhaps I might try -1.

Disclaimer first: MrsT uses a Helo2, not me and has only done limited tec-lite dives with it... but she's found that using the personal setting of zero on fairly square profile dives (Rosalie Muller for example) typically gives you stops roughly in line with the backup deeper-longer (+5, +5) plan derived from Buhlmann tables using GF of 30/80 (IIRC) ie not "giving you credit" for diving the plan and so forth. On that basis, you may also find 0 is slightly more conservative and -1 might be a nearer match. FWIW, we just stuck at the extra few minutes on the stops - if nothing's gone wrong, why push your luck - so I can't comment beyond that very limited observation. Probably not much use - sorry!

gobfish1
30-09-2014, 02:24 PM
had a look at a old excel i have with run time,s and deco for my old suunto Vytec/ no deep stops , set at p-0 and 50% RGBM as that,s as low as i could get it i think

p-2 runs much the same as my old p-o settings give or take a min all the way down to 50m then it looks like its 10% more aggressive, but still 20% better off than what id use numbers wise .

having said that, i know feek all about deco , As im only a :shagger (so keep that in mind )


just my 2p worth , P-1 for up to 50m than back to p-0 for the death diving .


ps im not saying you shold do this , im just talking shite on the net .

good look

wish i had p-2 on my old vytec , id have had to slap its arse just to see ,lol :devil:

ps

if you just want to keep up with your buddy s .
try a better deco ges , 64% should see him off lol