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View Full Version : What changes have you made to your KISS Classic ?



buxtonmarauder
22-09-2014, 08:18 AM
Been diving my KC now for a while and I've got to the point where there are some things that are annoying me. I'm interested in seeing what changes/enhancements other KC owners have made..

Details, pics, reasons for upgrade, sources of components etc would be really useful info if you CBA to post them up..

Ta :-)

notdeadyet
22-09-2014, 08:41 AM
I had mine 5 years and it was pretty much stock. Only changes:

- Whitey suicide valve on the MAV. Shutting o2 off at the cylinder is a bit shit so I put a ball valve on the MAV

- Swagelok QC4 off board dil connector on the manifold. Never used it but left it connected. BOV was an easier way to get offboard gas into the loop

- Mares BOV. Piece of shit, worse than the Paragon

Other than that, stainless gen2 mav, all stainless hoses, black gen1 handsets. I thought it was perfect like that. I had a SW on it but stripped it off, triple display is a far more resilient system.

I wouldnt touch a modern KISS with all the cheapened shit on it. I'd bin the Miflex, the plastic MAV is pish and the clear displays would get replaced.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Capt Morgan
22-09-2014, 09:21 AM
When I bought my unit it came with a Narked stand so I guess that is a mod that I have
always used it also came with a Golem BOV that I still use, the rest was standard.
The first change I did was to take off one of the displays and connect my VR3
so I had online deco information.
Next was to connect my BOV to off board using QC6 connectors so I had access to all
my bail out gas through the BOV.
I later changed the hoses to Cooper hoses, the original hoses had stretched to become
huge so needed replacement anyway, I got the Coopers at a good price and they breathe
just lovely.
Next up was getting a TecMe kidney and wiring in a petrel computer and a dream hud.
I like the Green is good display on the dream.
The latest mod was to take remove the manifold and run a hose direct from the 1st stage
to the ADV, I did this as I run my suit and wing inflation from a separate bottle so getting
shot of the manifold makes getting at the inhale lung a lot easier.
I forgot that my unit also came with a 6Lb top hat weight that helps trim the unit out.
I can post any photos you would like to see later, just let me know if you have anything
you would like to see.
Now what have you done to yours ?

buxtonmarauder
22-09-2014, 09:34 AM
Now what have you done to yours ?

Fitted a N@90 stand and replaced the MAV with a later plastic one, that's it.

I'm interested in fitting

cooper hoses
quick connects for the hoses into the BOV and head
off board qc connectors
golem bov
quick release/attach mechanism for the 3l cylinders

Barrygoss
22-09-2014, 09:37 AM
1, upgraded spring and smaller orifice - running 16bar O2 side
2, cooper hoses,
3, rEvo dream HUD,
4, shipwreck explorers adv, so it can hold a neg for as long as you want
5, narked stand
6, shearwater wired with Fischer, so I can upgrade computers when I want
7, thinking of going gue with the tanks, should also help trim
8, off board bailout into manifold via qc6, means I can bail without having to remove the reg for the entire ascent.

B

buxtonmarauder
22-09-2014, 09:44 AM
soooo.. where can you get all these things on the web ?

preferably not importing from the US.. (e.g. cooper hoses from golem gear)

Barrygoss
22-09-2014, 10:03 AM
soooo.. where can you get all these things on the web ?

preferably not importing from the US.. (e.g. cooper hoses from golem gear)

Coopers - rEvo, expect it to sting though
rEvo Dreams - ebay, or Shearwater from Narked, or HW for their version
Shipwreck Explorers ADV - you can't, they are just impossible to find (sorry)
Offboard QC6 - Andy from Switish, PM me for his number
Then custom hoses (so no adapters needed) from Dive Northampton
Orifice and spring from tecme

B

notdeadyet
22-09-2014, 10:16 AM
Cut a diaphragm from inner tube, it'll hold a neg all day.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Capt Morgan
22-09-2014, 10:23 AM
Cut a diaphragm from inner tube, it'll hold a neg all day.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

I went a little more posh and bought a bit of sheet rubber
to cut the diaphragm from ;)

ebt
22-09-2014, 10:34 AM
replaced the MAV with a later plastic one, that's it.

Im curious here, why did you do that? The 2nd gen metal MAV is a lot more durable.

My changes are minimal, its an early unit with 1st gen displays, paragon bov, worthington 3's etc. I pissed around with all sorts of silly stuff before coming back to this config:

1. counterlung case changed to the portland oceaneering stainless jobby (bigger cut outs for 1st stages and slightly longer overall)
2. the usual rolled up slop collector in the base of the scrubber
3. used threaded rod/nuts to replace solid metal counterlung bar (drops a shitload of weight out of the thing)
4. portland oceaneering tank quick connects. Im tempted to replace these with just some heavyweight velcro.....they're pretty industrial.
5. not really a mod, I velcro my loop hoses down onto the shoulders of my harness, it keeps them tucked in so they dont catch on crap, or get in the way when looking around.
6. braided hose for the o2 has been swapped to something more flexible from swagelok.
7. upgraded to the 2nd gen steel mav.

I've pondered the following:

- offboard gas add via QC. Havent bothered since I can always blow gas in via the mouthpiece....and I'd have to drill another inject port (pre unit 69)
- quick shutoff before the mav. just more for me to get caught on shit
- manifold removal, but i think the gains are offset by extra hose inside the CL case.
- swapping the bov out to something with a better reg and cc WOB. Im a bit torn here, i want it small/compact and the closest seems to be a shrimp, but Im fussy and want smaller/lighter.

I've still got the original adv on mine, but thats mostly because i dont see the point of long neg tests.

Capt Morgan
22-09-2014, 10:44 AM
Im curious here, why did you do that? The 2nd gen metal MAV is a lot more durable.

My changes are minimal, its an early unit with 1st gen displays, paragon bov, worthington 3's etc. I pissed around with all sorts of silly stuff before coming back to this config:

1. counterlung case changed to the portland oceaneering stainless jobby (bigger cut outs for 1st stages and slightly longer overall)
2. the usual rolled up slop collector in the base of the scrubber
3. used threaded rod/nuts to replace solid metal counterlung bar (drops a shitload of weight out of the thing)
4. portland oceaneering tank quick connects. Im tempted to replace these with just some heavyweight velcro.....they're pretty industrial.
5. not really a mod, I velcro my loop hoses down onto the shoulders of my harness, it keeps them tucked in so they dont catch on crap, or get in the way when looking around.
6. braided hose for the o2 has been swapped to something more flexible from swagelok.
7. upgraded to the 2nd gen steel mav.

I've pondered the following:

- offboard gas add via QC. Havent bothered since I can always blow gas in via the mouthpiece....and I'd have to drill another inject port (pre unit 69)
- quick shutoff before the mav. just more for me to get caught on shit
- manifold removal, but i think the gains are offset by extra hose inside the CL case.
- swapping the bov out to something with a better reg and cc WOB. Im a bit torn here, i want it small/compact and the closest seems to be a shrimp, but Im fussy and want smaller/lighter.

I've still got the original adv on mine, but thats mostly because i dont see the point of long neg tests.

I have been considering a stainless case but as I would have to get it made I have to buy enough 316 to make two.
As for running hoses inside the case, I don't.

ebt
22-09-2014, 10:55 AM
Must admit Im a big fan of daves work, the welding is bloody neat.

If i were to do it again I'd try a thinner stainless, as it is the case makes me a little overweight in fresh water, but its not massive. I do keep wondering about other materials.... but as you probably guessed Im lazy ;)

buxtonmarauder
22-09-2014, 11:19 AM
Im curious here, why did you do that? The 2nd gen metal MAV is a lot more durable.

because the metal spindle in the middle of the MAV had somehow got scored to the point where at 10 bar interstage the mav was delivering 1.8lpm as opposed to the value it should have been giving (0.65lpm)..

I tried to replace the spindle but couldn't get hold of one so opted for buying from Jetsam, and they only had the plastic ones.. fixed the problem immediately and it's been fine so far.

Why would it be any more or less durable ?

ebt
22-09-2014, 11:29 AM
its made of plastic.... some folks have managed to crack it by bashing it with a tank.... and some folks have managed to strip the threads. Im sure all that damage is avoidable, it just seemed a curious upgrade....but i get why you did it :)

buxtonmarauder
22-09-2014, 11:33 AM
gotcha.. I was thinking perhaps you knew that the barrel was more susceptible to particle ingress or something..

deepunderground
22-09-2014, 11:58 AM
I have a stainless case for uk diving, the shorter rubber hoses 17" I think, mares bov with hose routed behind head to left hand shoulder d ring male cejn.

Shearwater predator and HUD.

Removed manifold, just have wing and adv hoses running straight from first stage, mini spg on dil side first stage

Shut off valve on o2 side

O2 lp hose running inside case, HP hose outside case

Nice flat diverite back plate

Adapted inspo scrims for top scrubber gauze

ADV diaphragm made out of inner tube, holds negative pressure all day, hasn't stretched yet...

Fairly minimal setup

notdeadyet
22-09-2014, 12:29 PM
because the metal spindle in the middle of the MAV had somehow got scored to the point where at 10 bar interstage the mav was delivering 1.8lpm as opposed to the value it should have been giving (0.65lpm)..

I tried to replace the spindle but couldn't get hold of one so opted for buying from Jetsam, and they only had the plastic ones.. fixed the problem immediately and it's been fine so far.

Why would it be any more or less durable ?

I had a lot of problems with mine.

For starters, the male ports where the hoses attached would regularly unscrew themselves. I was told this was "normal". Hopefully that normal condition has been fixed.

I had no faith in it not blowing apart in a seat failure. With the ball valve I could control oxygen if it happened but with the plastic I believe the rating isnt that great, it wont resist full pressure.

Usual KISS sore point of metal fixings into plastic threads. A helicoil costs pennies.

Last straw was the flow rate on the bypass button was very low. I like being able to flush quick or go open loop if I had to, couldnt do it with the plastic mav.

I cant recall why I went to it but ended up replacing it with a gen 2.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

nigel hewitt
22-09-2014, 01:46 PM
What?
Nobody has a SNOG valve?

When I first saw that I was so jealous.

deepunderground
22-09-2014, 02:12 PM
What?
Nobody has a SNOG valve?

When I first saw that I was so jealous.
I've got a copy of 990 where the snog valve was announced !

You might need o2 compatible toothpaste and 02 clean dentures !

deepunderground
22-09-2014, 02:15 PM
1, upgraded spring and smaller orifice - running 16bar O2 side
2, cooper hoses,
3, rEvo dream HUD,
4, shipwreck explorers adv, so it can hold a neg for as long as you want
5, narked stand
6, shearwater wired with Fischer, so I can upgrade computers when I want
7, thinking of going gue with the tanks, should also help trim
8, off board bailout into manifold via qc6, means I can bail without having to remove the reg for the entire ascent.

B
Will be interested in your gue tanks, have thought about it myself.

Been looking at 2x 4l from somewhere in Europe. Should give it a bit more height when sat on the bench also

Capt Morgan
22-09-2014, 02:31 PM
What?
Nobody has a SNOG valve?

When I first saw that I was so jealous.


I've got a copy of 990 where the snog valve was announced !

You might need o2 compatible toothpaste and 02 clean dentures !

I have that copy also, can't say I was chomping for one :rofl:

Mark Chase
22-09-2014, 03:17 PM
SS Counterlung case (copied Zak) so I didnt need lead in the UK

Narked @ 90 type stand

John Falcone ADV

Shearwater HUD

Shearwater Persuit display

Golum BOV

DIR Zone mini SPGs

Cooper hoses but they were just bling


Deeply regret selling it and I am in the process of getting another one

ATB

Mark

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/MarkChase/KISS%20MCCR/KISSrig.jpg

ebt
22-09-2014, 03:21 PM
I have to admit, i believe that the safest way to monitor the o2 is via fully separate displays, but the shearwater NERD does look bloody brilliant!

Capt Morgan
22-09-2014, 04:13 PM
I agree that the triple display is by far the safest way to track the O2
but the Shearwater is a thing of beauty and allows you to see the cell
voltage at any time plus the expected O2 reading for a dil flush.
For deeper dives I take my VR3 set at a fixed set point as a back up.
I'd hope to be able to get back home with the use of 2 computers and
the HUD, if not then it's time to watch signs go to the surface ;)
I love my kiss, it's so simple to maintain and dive. It's my first rebreather
so I could be talking out my butt but I don't see any reason to change
to another model.

notdeadyet
22-09-2014, 07:24 PM
I had a SW on mine for a while. Never really got what problem it was solving. I had taken three independent displays and rolled them into one so that a single problem would wipe out my ppO2 monitoring. I'd taken three independent cells and wired them together with a common ground lead so that a single problem would wipe out all three cell outputs. All so I could have deco tracking that was only a few minutes different to when the computer was set for constant ppO2. So then to get redundancy I was faced with either finding a way to re-wire the triple display back into the head or add a SW HUD. In the end I thought fuck it, stripped the SW off, flogged it and wired the original display back in.

Without a doubt the SW was nicely engineered and the kidney that Narkedat90 modified for me was well done too but ultimately I saw very little benefit without a lot of expense and hassle. Fischer connectors also must be the shite-est connector used in diving.

Gordon designed a really neat system. It takes a lot to wipe out all three displays. They might not be the most robust (I'd bet cash money every owner of a black display has stripped a thread at some point) but show them care and they were fairly bombproof.

notdeadyet
22-09-2014, 07:33 PM
if not then it's time to watch signs go to the surface ;)

I always fancied getting one of those open source computers and writing some software that also displayed your deco in pounds rather than minutes.



I love my kiss, it's so simple to maintain and dive. It's my first rebreather
so I could be talking out my butt but I don't see any reason to change
to another model.

I've had my Mk15 since 2008 when I sold my KISS. I love it but I do miss my CK. It just worked and when it didn't you could find ways to get round it. The only dive I ever missed on it was due to a dodgy cell lead and I'd stupidly not brought any allen keys to get to the head. Gordon managed to do what Archie the Inventor failed at with the Apoc, build a simple unit that the end user could turn into whatever they wanted.

I still kind of regret flogging mine. In retrospect, I wish I'd kept it but I know if I had I would probably have ended up flogging the Mk15 instead.

Mike B
11-10-2014, 08:16 AM
I've pretty much chopped and changed my KISS classic over the last 10+ years and still very happy with it.

Unit 081R...R because 5 years ago cracked the head at the O2 elbow (common issue) and replaced the head. My rig is for wet suit diving so its more about getting weight off. Modifications include:-

- Sunkmail counter lung case - besides being light, its well made, excellent to access counter-lungs and easy to cable tie hose routing / weight pockets the way you like it
- 2 Shearwater Predators on separate cables with Narked at 90 30bar plugs replacing the rubbish Fischer (can't understand why the industry doesn't adopt the 30 bar plugs)...bought 2 shearwaters on the forums second hand, John at Narked at 90 did the rest.
- Cooper hoses - agree more bling but feel solid
- Delrin turrets on head with screw on threads to attach the hoses (only option back in 2004 to replace jubilee clips)
- Falcone ADV puck - no more messing with screws and flappy rubber which I had a bad habit of tearing
- rEvo triple block - its big but works well. Used to beat the O2 CMF issue on the KISS orifice below 80m with O2 off board plugged into it. I find it easier to inject dil with this block instead of the ADV which I keep as a second option when hands are full. Apprehensive at first using O2 in the off board port but worked amazingly well below 80m (its QD6 into the block so it takes a second to disconnect if there's a problem)
- stainless hosing replaced with Miflex
- Backplate bolts permanently fitted on counter-lung case pointing out - makes for easy removal / fitting of backplate and wing.
- Oxycheq I-shaped backplate with helicopter clips on harness for easy exit. Also this webbing is easier to adjust compared to a one piece webbing rig
- Golem CCR wing - donut gives more lift lower down (much better than the horse-shoe wings I've tried before)
- Machined stainless steel caps (2kg and 3kg) - for trim but do try not to use them as I'm negatively buoyant anyway
- Shrimp BOV with QD - good reliabe piece of kit although I actually didn't mind the Paragon (cheap to buy and replace in HK)
- Whip off the manifold with QC6

Very little of the original unit is left but it feels and dives like the original KISS Classic. What's next? - I'm waiting delivery of a FFM (Draegar Nova, tried the gag and didn't like it) with a shrimp bov fitting and recently found a recommended supplier of carbon fibre tanks in China (carbon fibre on the KISS are a delight to use in a wet suit ). BTW, I find tank valves pointing down are much easier to reach.

Mike