Club compressor requirements... Ideas?

[alexmills80]

Guys

I'd like some advice and suggestions please. Our club compressor (made in 1987, moved several times, subject to varying degrees of TLC and servicing by the transient club members..) has failed its air purity test and the servicing contractor has deemed it beyond economical repair...so the club needs to find a replacement...

But... We may be able to apply for a grant. So whilst well-meaning cash might be available, the key question is, what is our actual requirement? We've discussed it a little, but it's not necessarily a thing that clubs regularly think about or indeed purchase..

So far, I have the following noted down..

1. If we go for Nitrox, then we want a membrane one. More expensive and the membrane has to be serviced. But better than blending manually.

2. 'Beer tap' functionality. Basically this is a constant flow rate management tool so it constantly monitors the rate apparently. (It reduces the need to slowly turn on each tap....too fast and you end up with a red-hot cylinder which cools to 120 bar etc...)

3. Through life support: this will need to be considered as it'll have to be met from club means. Simple to operate a must.

4. One potentially one optimised for infrequent use: 3-4 times a month (if such a unit exists??). I suspect this will be different to the commercial dive centre ones. We'd probably look to fill no more than 60 cylinders per month (12 club ones plus private ones) as an absolute maximum. This would be done weekly, so 12-15 cylinders per week, maximum.

Anyone got any good ideas to share? Also, what would we get with the current 1897, sorry 1987, thing, complete with 2 x 42L bank cylinders...?

Thanks in advance A

[DiverMike]

Keep the bank - one for air and one for 32%.

Can an you join forces with other local clubs to justify something that will get more use?

[Dammyla]

60 fills a month isn't very much. Can you not make arrangements with an LDS (if you have a convenient one) to do this for you. Between the club members you could do one run to drop off and one to collect maybe once a week, perhaps subsidising petrol costs with the money saved by not having a compressor?

No more faff than your current fill schedule by the sounds of it (again assuming you have a reasonably convenient LDS) and I would expect most normal cars to take a dozen tanks easily.

[MikeF]

static or mobile compressor? how many cylinders are you likely to want to fill in one go? if static and not many you'll get away with a smallish compressor and an air bank. if you want to whack up 15 cylinders in an hour or two you'll need something bigger. if you want to take it trips you need to consider getting something that can be lifted unless it lives in a trailer.

I'd have thought you needed something arond the 5 - 10cfm mark. mch16 is an OK size but if you want it to be uber reliable get a bauer. look at the mariner or poseidon 250lpm or 300lpm models.

or try and find an old K15, they run forever.

[Janos]

Just a quick word on grants, but, going through the process myself, I understand that replacement of existing kit because of wear-and-tear is NOT going to tick their boxes. However, if you were buying a new compressor that was O2 clean for Nitrox (added safety) or was going to be significantly cheaper to operate (allowing more members to participate in the sport) then that's a different matter.

If I'm completely wrong on this let me know as I'm going through the process myself.

Janos

[Lanny]

Membrane systems are great, but cost more money upfront and will increase your electricity costs as you need an LP air supply to run. Given the relatively small volumes you are looking at, buying O2 and using a continuous blending "stick" or partial pressure may be more economical than a membrane. A lot will depend on electricity costs vs O2 costs.

[DiverMike]

Just a quick word on grants, but, going through the process myself, I understand that replacement of existing kit because of wear-and-tear is NOT going to tick their boxes. However, if you were buying a new compressor that was O2 clean for Nitrox (added safety) or was going to be significantly cheaper to operate (allowing more members to participate in the sport) then that's a different matter.

If I'm completely wrong on this let me know as I'm going through the process myself.

Janos

No direct experience myself but replacing for wear and tare is I gather a big turn off (and failing to consider how to replace a grant assisted asset at the end of its life is not good either). A number og clubs have got grants on nitrox stuff for safety grounds. Being able to open up the sport to more of the community (esp disadvantaged groups) often scores well too.

[graham_hk]

I suspect if you did a true cost analysis (cost of purchase and depreciation, electricity, filters and other consumables, maintenance + all the time spent filling tanks and waiting around for technicians etc) you would be much better off buying gas from a convieninet dive shops at 2x the price they are charging ...

[MikeF]

No direct experience myself but replacing for wear and tare is I gather a big turn off (and failing to consider how to replace a grant assisted asset at the end of its life is not good either).

I've lost count of the number of times I've had this conversation with various clubs and members who think that they don't need to raise funds to replace grant aided equipment like boats and compressors because 'we'll just apply for a grant for another one like we applied for a grant 15 years ago to buy it in the first place'.

oh and the comment about it being cheaper to fill cylinders at a local shop is true (but only if you have one that is local and not a two hour drive away to get a fill).

[alexmills80]

Just a quick word on grants, but, going through the process myself, I understand that replacement of existing kit because of wear-and-tear is NOT going to tick their boxes. However, if you were buying a new compressor that was O2 clean for Nitrox (added safety) or was going to be significantly cheaper to operate (allowing more members to participate in the sport) then that's a different matter.

If I'm completely wrong on this let me know as I'm going through the process myself.

Janos

For this nature of grant, replacement for wear and tear is fine. The money cannot be used to service already-owned equipment as that is to be met via club means (subs). We're scoping a transportable compressor right now. Air only. a longer term plan will see us go for the nitrox use, and all the safety justification comments will be coming out then!

[alexmills80]

Team - thanks for the various replies. Finally got round to dusting off the grant application and tweaking the figures. It'll go in later this week. Had some interesting quotes from Bauer and I'm speaking with them tomorrow. As out actual clubhouse/kit store location is likely to move in the next 12-24 months - several times too - we're looking at a quick fix to get cylinders filled and will likely go with a transportable one. Yes, it will be slow to fill and it'll only do air, but it will suffice for now and meet the anticipated air demands outlined above. It also gives us a really attractive deployable capability, reducing the need to Factair test (iaw JSP 917) all civilian filling stations we may wish to use.

On that note, I do completely acknowledge the option of teaming up with an LDS and another local club to make best use of the new purchase. Sadly, being on the southern tip of Salisbury Plain, we're bit cut off from both options. And linking to the air purity standards below, we'd have to regularly carry out tests on the air supplier. This is very much an opportunistic attempt to capitalise on some otherwise-untapped funding. We'll see what develops in the next few weeks...

[Iain Smith]

Just a thought. If you're working to JSP-anything, I guess that you're not going to get away with an DIY nitrox stick. However, would you be able to use a commercially manufacturer device such as this one?

(Much as it pains me to suggest spending a four-figure sum of money for what is, in effect, plumbing parts)

Iain

[alexmills80]

Bid going in for this bad boy. The 200 model.. Transportable, too...

http://www.poseidonedition.com/en/node/101

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[Mikael]

Bid going in for this bad boy. The 200 model.. Transportable, too...

http://www.poseidonedition.com/en/node/101

Same as our club has. As for transportable.... Yes and No. We managed to move it into our stores with out lifting equipment but we needed four sets of hands, one person at each corner. Going down stairs wasn't much fun and I wouldn't want to be lifting it up high so as to slide into a van for example. Good luck and enjoy

[DiverMike]

Is it 3 phase? If so that some what limits the portability.